wires to capacitor on YORK AC unit are burned and melted

[CBhvac]

and as normal, you only have part of the answer..

What if you are dealing with a 3 phase unit???

Try again.

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

He wants to see a condenser unit when it burns again.

TURTLE

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

I got my Computor to zoom in on the contactors for a look at the points of the contactor for to see if or how bad they were burnt and seen no signs of ants. That thought is a very good ideal to look for because they can take a set of contactor out in just a day or so.

TURTLE

[Chris Lewis]

According to Stormin Mormon :

ITYM the damage on the contactor/relay terminal screw?

Yeah.

[Stormin Mormon]

Good guess, but I meant that the capacitor (which is high up in the case, and the terminals are on the bottom) is rusty. It sure looks to me like the case of the capacitor is rusty.

[coldasice]

TURTLE wrote on Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:28:15 GMT :

That's because they take soooo many coffee breaks, and always "Forgot something back at the hill."

[Chris Lewis]

According to Stormin Mormon :

Yup, I see that too. And the other capacitor left and below the contactor/relay (terminals on the top) may be even worse.

[Didn't get a chance to enlarge the picture and go over it carefully until now.]

If I recall other postings in this thread correctly, the previous serviceman replaced the original single-can "dual" capacitor with two singles.

In summary: both capacitors are rusty, and at least one of the contactor/relay unit connection terminals is more-or-less heat and corrosion destroyed - the gray/blue "staining" on the terminal mounting 'ear' (plastic or bakelite, likely the latter) shows it's been grossly overheated - the metal strap and screw are _badly_ damaged, and it should not be trusted.

[Another terminal may be just as bad, but none of the pictures show sufficient closeup detail.]

I think the OP needs a _reputable_ serviceman come visit and test out the entire thing.

If he stays with two capacitors, the one with the terminals facing "up" should be inverted. As it is, it's a water/rust trap.

Given the sloppy workmanship, I'll bet that the capacitor values are grossly wrong, which could lead to wires melting too.

[Greg O]

you may want to re-think this one Stormy1 Greg

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Refrigerator but not HVAC .

TURTLE

[Stormin Mormon]

2) What are the names of the electrical terminals on a typical compressor? What does each terminal do? SM: Common, start, and run. Common acts as a neutral, though on 220 volt comps, the common terminal is "hot". Start provides for extra torque for starting. On refrigeration compressors, the start terminal is usually only powered for a second or two, via a start relay. On AC units, it is often hooked to a motor run capacitor. Run terminal provides the power to run the compressor.

[CBhvac]

No..there is NO NEUTRAL on a 220VAC compressor...not single, or 3 phase..you are wrong.

What ASHRAE site you try to steal that from?

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Stormy Listen up. The start winding on a refrigeration compressor will be powered up for no more that 10 seconds and then therelay cuts power to the start winding and run winding keeps it going.

The air conditioning compressor , the start winding is activatied and keeps power to it when running all the time. This is what I'm getting at here.

Stormy , Go all out and buy you a Modern Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Book and start reading and it will tell the hell out of everything we are talking about. You won't have to ask anything but sometime start speaking with some knownledge of what your speaking about. If you don't have this book to referrence from. Your going to be in the dark all the time.

TURTLE

[Chris Lewis]

According to CBhvac :

He said that, sorta, only a few sentences later on. Poor phraseology on his part.

Let me say that differently:

The "C" terminal is _common_. It's the "other end" of the two windings associated with the "R"[un] and "S"[tart] terminals.

In simpler motors, the run winding is energized all the time, the start winding is energized (through a capacitor to introduce a phase shift) only during a few seconds worth of startup.

If only the run winding is energized in a stationary single phase motor, the motor won't start turning, it'll just hum, because it doesn't have any torque to initiate rotation. If you give the shaft a twist, it will start turning and get up to speed (but it'll take a while).

The start winding (through the use of the capacitor introducing a phase shift) introduces the torque needed to get the motor turning from stationary.

[My old 1HP Sears radial arm saw motor is exactly this.]

Three phase motors don't need start windings, capacitors or start switches, because they inherently have out-of-phase windings. If you feed a three phase motor with only one phase (using two of the three windings), it'll sit and hum too. You can get them to come up to speed by adding an external "start switch/capacitor" or by twisting them mechanically.

[In fact, many woodworkers "synthesize" three phase power by using a three phase "idler" motor connected to single phase. Add a start circuit (or pull cord), and you can drive three phase power tools off the three terminals on the "idler" motor. These "starter circuits" are available commercially. The setups are sometimes called "rotary phase converters". It sounds strange, but it actually works very well.]

I'm not familiar with "run capacitor" single-phase motor theory, so I won't comment on those. [I could make some intelligent guesses, but I'll avoid embarassing myself in front of people who do these for a living thank you very much ;-)]

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Star Buck you got it wrong here. We are talking about HVAC compressor and not woodworking equipment. Woodworking equipment will work like you say but hvac compressors , the start winding will stay powered all the time and start with a hard start kit jumping out of the run capasitor. it give it a 440 volt shot to get it moving then cut out. The run capasitor will stay in line on the start circuit all during the run time.

Now the other endless void of knownledge you give us here is nothing but 3 phase motor being run off single phase power supply. i know of no commercial supplier that supplies such devices except for places in Mexico where they don't have a 3 phase supply of power, and have run 3 phase motors on single phase. These devices has nothing to do with hvac compressor in the USA for we have good power supply and don't need second rate running devices to run the equipment. Here is the states if you want more power to run your

3 phase motors we use 480 volt service and motor and you have no power shortage at all.

TURTLE

[Chris Lewis]

According to TURTLE :

Yes, I know who it is, the from line says who.

Slow walking soup-beast, you made a very careful point of omitting the following paragraph betwixt "My old..." and the signature:

Perhaps you should spend a little more time out of your shell reading the postings you're replying to, and/or, avoid the creative editing of what you quote.

No? You don't? Perhaps you shouldn't speak about things you know nothing about. A simple google search would help you avoid sticking one of those claw feet in your mouth.

These are specifically for people who want to run 3-phase equipment (perhaps an old piece of woodworking equipment they picked up at an auction) and run it when getting 3 phase power may be prohibitively expensive or simply not available (ie: wierd zoning codes).

Here's just three links to such units or manufacturers of such units.

1) Lists approximately another _25_ manufacturers of these devices:

#2 has 55,000 of them in the field.

Here's a couple DIY construction articles:

4) #5 has a good explanation of why you'd want to do this.

I know that. That was an _aside_.

Read #5 above. How much would it cost _you_ to get 3 phase into your garage?

Another aside:

My dad routinely works with electric motors with several thousand horsepower. Ie: imagine how big a motor you need to drive 5000GPM up a 5000 foot head? Hint: the impeller is a 12 foot long chunk of stainless formed into 12 stages. The outlet pipe is something like 12" in diameter.

480V doesn't cut it. Some of these motors need a teensy bit more power than is convenient for 480V. Like 40Kv.

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

I have read all the bullshit about 3 phase motor and your great endless Void of knowledge of them , but We are not talking about 3 phase motors and do it yourself home 3 phase converters. We are talking about hvac equipment which you have no knowledge of and want to empress everybody on 3 phase motor knownledge and we are talking about hvac equipment. Now you say your dad is a Bearing man for G/E on turbine and electric motors. I'm proud of him but he is the one that works on them and not you.

Now again for your benefit here. The thread is about HVAC or Ref. equipment and not G/E Load Builders. Now i would like to ask you what you do for a living to know if you have any back ground in HVAC / R business for i have been working in the field and run my own company for the 40 something years. I mostly do HVAC / R systems under 60 tons or less. What do you do for a living ? I know you will not answer but I ask anyway.

TURTLE

[Stormin Mormon]

Dear Keith, Did you get it fixed? What did the local guy do to fix it? Seeing as how you're the one right there with the system, perhaps you can share your experiences. Thank you.

[CBHVAC]

hah like I reallly care, baboon breath. Go back to screwing your sister. Can you see this now?

[CBHVAC]

I am absoloutely positively going to die laughing when I read these answers. I better intercom my secretary and tell her that I'm not having a heart attack.

And we didn't think you could get it right, either. Hack.

You think we're impressed by this, you fat useless turd?

And we are supposed to bow down to you now? Get a clue, moron.

Ah, you got to be kidding. I've got a crew of a dozen or so men working for me, I was up to 55 employees at one time. We even had our own changing room and shower. Wow, did I love making snap inspections in the shower. I think a couple of the guys started to get nervous being around me, though. Do you think I was too obvious when I got that earring?