I have a new Whirlpool-made Sears Kenmore 80 series direct drive washer
(non-Calypso) with a mechanical timer. This and older belt-drive
Whirlpools are designed to pause for several seconds just after the
wash cycle has ended and just before the rinse cycle begins and also
pause another several seconds between the end of the rinse cycle and
the start of the spin cycle.
However, with this washer if the lid is opened during either pause, the
timer will buzz and occasionally whir and make popcorn-like noises
(gears clashing)?. The noises disappear immediately when the lid is
closed and resume when it's opened again. The buzzing is not the
normal timer motor noise, which is much quieter. I'm mostly concerned
about the irregular nature of noises
A Sears technician (real technician) told me, over the phone, that
these noises are normal for this model and that they're caused by the
"AC-to-DC transducer" shutting off current to the rest of the circuit
and the power having nowhere else to go. He also said the device could
burn out if left in this condition too long.
I'm fairly sure he did not mean "transformer," although he did make a
comparison to a model train set, which would imply a transformer, but
this noise isn't like anything I've heard from any 60 Hz transformer or
coil. And why would it be an AC-to-DC device? I thought Whirlpool
washers with mechanical timers used only AC internally and never
converted anything to DC.
What are these noises, and are they really normal?
Unfortunately it's inside, and the whole exterior has to be removed (it
comes off in one big piece) to reach it. I looked at the electrical
diagrams of an older Whirlpool, but it doesn't show what happens inside
the timer, only what the timer controls.
This washer replaces one installed a few weeks ago, and I have a
feeling I'll soon end up replacing it as well, not only because of its
timer but also some growling from below.
That's a possibility, and I can't tell whether the noise is from gears
or relay contacts, but in the diagram for the old washer there don't
seem to be any self-holding relays or solonoids.
By the way, if you buy a scratch & dent appliance from Sears, most of
the scratches and dents on returned items are probably made by Sears
because they don't use any padding on their hand trucks or lift from
On 17 Jan 2006 18:48:07 -0800, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
This is new? Call sears and make them fix it.
My old one pauses too. It has something to do with permanent press I
think. Does it pause in other cycles? Just curious.
I disabled my lid switch, so it always things the lid is closed. (I
stuffed some paper towel in the hole) but I don't think anything
should make those noises when the lid is up.
Do you have his assureances in writing? If not, they're almost
worthless? Do you know his name? If not they're definitely
worthless. If you do have his name, he may quit or be kidnapped at
any moment. Worthless again. But having his name only makes things
someone says valuable if you subpoena them for your small claims
trial. Even then he might not be able to show up, or he might lie, or
he might not remember, or he might have learned better since he said
it, and that's why he really can't remember.
And he didn't actually give you good assurances. If you leave the
lid up for too long, something will burn out? That's absurd, and I
don't believe it.
I also don't believe that anyone who says in seriousness tha t"the
current has nowhere else to go" knows what he is talkilng about. How
do you know he was a r eal technician, and how do you know he wasn't
I don't think you will be able to read this guys mind. I think he's
I agree with you.
Probably not. I've almost never bought anything new. What does it
take to get a service man to respond to a complaint?
What my girlfriend says is to just call again. That you'll get a
different answer each time you call. (not just about appliance places
but everywhere) . On the second or third time, they'll say, Well have
someone out Wednesday.
If they don't want to send someone, send a certified letter, return
receipt, detailing what you said here that is wrong with the machine,
and noting that they refused or failed to send a repairman, and that
you will hold them responsible forever for this part and any damage
caused by the failure to fix it Maybe two copies of the letter,
one to the manager of thestore, and one to someone at corporate,
addressed to the store maybe, with indication that a copy goes to
so-and=so at the corporate office.
Well this might not be the best way to complain, because you want it
fixed and not just them notified, but at the very least this will put
you on record as having this problem way before the guarantee expires.
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.
Duracell says their alkaline batteries have a 7-year shelf life, defined
at 80% remaining capacity, with no discharge. I spoke with a Duracell ap
engineer who had a hard time understanding that's the expected life in
a circuit, if the battery powers the circuit and we supply the battery
with exactly the current the circuit requires.
He had a harder time imagining that the battery might last longer than
7 years if we supply an additional "shelf current" to make up for the
self-discharge over 7 years, saying that might avoid turning some zinc
into zinc oxide, but it wouldn't change the electrolyte dissolution or
materials breakdown that also degrade capacity.
He was also unconvinced that float-charging a battery with an intermittent
AC supply or load (eg charging a 4.5 V clock radio battery that supplies
120 uA to the clock alone but 50 uA with the radio running to 4.5 V using 2
5.1 V zeners in the circuit below) to its nominal voltage would extend it
beyond 7 years, saying one smoke detector manufacturer drastically reduced
battery lifetime by using a circuit that accidentally charged the batteries
with "a few milliamps," vs microamps.
Supplying a shelf current along with a load current is promising, IMO,
but supplying shelf current alone in a new battery-backed-up AC-powered
product with a battery test function seems too costly and inefficient,
given the tiny possible reliability improvement.
hot 10K || Cload
|| | |
120 VAC /-/ --- to appliance
neutral | |
20 DATA "AAA",0.27,"AA",1.1,"C",2.8,"D",8,"9V",0.5
30 FOR B=1 TO 5
40 READ TYPE$,AH
50 ILOAD=AH/8765'1-year discharge current (A)
60 ISHELF=.2*AH/(7*8765)'self-discharge current (A)
70 Cload00000!*(ILOAD+ISHELF)/(60*370)'1-year charge pump cap (uF)
80 Cshelf00000!*ISHELF/(60*370)'7-year charge pump cap (uF)
90 PRINT TYPE$;TAB(6);AH;TAB(12);1000*ILOAD;TAB(28);C1;TAB(44);C10
Type Ah Iload (mA) Cload (uF) Cshelf (uF) Digikey # Price
AAA 0.3 0.031 0.0015 0.000039 P10799-ND $2.96/10
AA 1.1 0.125 0.0068 0.00015 P10806-ND $3.08/10
C 2.8 0.319 0.015 0.00039 P10811-ND $3.92/10
D 8.0 0.913 0.047 0.0012
9V 0.5 0.057 0.0033 0.000068 P10802-ND $2.96/10.
The curves on the technical Duracell web site don't define capacity. After
the above Ah discharge, the output voltage reaches 80% of nominal voltage,
eg 1.2 V for a 1.5 V cell at 0.25 watts. AAAs store a lot less than AAs...
This pause is different from the cool-down pause for permanent press,
and it happens even during the regular wash cycle.
This Sears person seemed to have that rare, long-lost commodity -
I am shocked, simply shocked, that an employee of a corporation would
actually lie to the public. :)
I wouldn't rule it out because this machine doesn't seem to be designed
with as much thought as the 1981 Whirlpool it replaced. For one thing,
if you start the wash cycle in the middle, it will agigate even without
water in the tub (the old one would always fill, no matter where the
washer was started in the cycle). And another detail overlooked: the
lid knocks into the timer knob, which I'm sure will wear out the paint
That part didn't make sense to me, and I thought he merely
oversimplified the explanation in case the customer didn't understand
electricity. He did know about some not-so-obvious mechanical details
about the suspension.
The problem is that, In my experience, the best technicians tend to
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