or NO fuse. the very first rental we took on had the standard MAIN RANGE plus 4 fuse panel. No less than 4 added circuits were hooked to the hot side of the buss. I turned the MR+4 into a disconnect and put a nice 100 A panel next to it and started over.
Changing the topic a little, but on that episode why did they use 2-8 foot ground rods by the meter outside? I thought only 1 ground rod was sufficient.
Depends on the ground composition and conductivity. 2 rods is almost standard practice around here
two 8' x 5/8" diameter rods at least 6' apart are the minimum required.
The first bunch of GFCI's I bought back in the 80's (I think) were pretty squirrely. The second batch of two I bought just a little later to replace them have been running fine ever since. I think the originals were Slater's and the replacements were Levitons.
I just read the section about arc faults at
(1) arcing (2) excessive ohmic heating, without arcing (3) external heating.
That makes sense. I can't count the times I've seen outlets stuffed tighter than the houses they show on "Hoarders." But wouldn't that bent contact likely become a source of an arc fault since it's probably not able to carry as great a current load as an undamaged switch?
From the research at the site above, they may not be listed forever. They seem to be implicated in more than their fair share of home electrical fires. Are outlets that don't use spring clips (just push it in) but hold-down screws (push it in and screw down) both considered back stabs? (That sounds obscene)
When you're inspecting outlets and receptacles, what do you look for? I mean what's the most common screw-up made, especially by non-professionals?
-- Bobby G.
Sorry, but again, not when every circuit except for the dedicated
240 volt appliances were double tapped to the breakers, trying to "decode" what went where when the old panel was packed full of wiring running 25 something circuits off of only 16 breakers...Totally not worth the time to figure that out -- since the proper replacement of one circuit per breaker when the new panel goes in it is a lot easier to figure out what is on the new circuits by powering them up one at a time...
The old panel wasn't marked but for two or three of the circuits...
It is very nice that everyone here seems to think that tracing every circuit and examining what every connection on it looks like is included in a panel swap and service upgrade but it is not... You will never know what the wiring is like in an existing home looks like without opening every wall or pulling brand new wires to every outlet box, switch box and light fixture and abandoning the old wiring...
You can have a brand new panel with new home runs of brand new wiring but in an old house you will have no clue what is downstream, what the connections are and even where they are located... Too often when an older home is gutted very old knob and tube wiring is found with improper connections tapped into it and junction boxes plastered over...
~~ Evan
I don't think anyone here was advocating tracing every wire and circuit. They were mostly saying it's probably worth it to at least label what wire went to which breakers, especially if there's more than one size of breaker involved. Not doing so saves five minutes and loses information that could actually save time and headache when putting in the new panel for some of the very good reasons people have noted.
-- Bobby G.
Inspection sticker?
God, how awful.
You can use one rod if the resistance to earth is 25 ohms or less. Meters are expensive and it is easier to use 2 rods. There is no resistance required for 2 rods.
Rods are a crappy earthing electrode. For most new construction a "concrete encased electrode" is required.
No.
Are the screw down type equal in reliability to the curved wire end under the screw type? They seem to be the best of both worlds - screw-down reliability and (usually) a broad contact area (at least the kind I've seen with the clamping plate).
Thanks for your input!
-- Bobby G.
The AFCI recognizes three different arc faults #1 Faults inside the wall, (v 1.0) #2 Faults from the cord cap to the usage equipment (v.2.0) That is what the original definition of "combination" AFCI and the early AFCIs only detected shorting faults. #3 ... #3 ... Umm (sorry Rick)
The 3d fault is a series fault where you have a loose connection and that was supposed to be detected in V 3,0
There are some revisions within those categories as they improved the product and each manufacturer has their own proprietary method of detecting faults. All AFCIs are not created equal.
Cuttler Hammer also has a GFCI/AFCI breaker that could be handy in one of those places where both are required (IE a wet bar in a bedroom or living room).
The back wired clamping device is not considered a back stab. They are a little more expensive so a guy hitting a price point probably won't use them if they are shaving costs.
I look at box fill, the grounding connection, the way the binding screws are made up and if everything is connected to the right terminal. It is one of those things that you know when you see it.
I am really looking at workmanship first. If this was done by someone who is doing a good job, they usually do a good job everywhere. You just look at a good representitive sample. The boss does not give you time to open every box. That only happens when you see bad workmanship or when you catch someone telling you a lie.
If I had to pick the single thing non-pros do wrong, it would be box fill. They add a circuit to a box that was already close to or at the limit.
Equal or better.
ide quoted text -
I think you'd be impressed with my directory.
I created an Excel spreadsheet that not only details what each breaker controls, but also, where appropriate, what it *doesn't* control.
As a simple example, I have a circuit for the garage lights & receptacles. In the garage I also have a single receptacle for the freezer, on it's own circuit.
Breaker 16 is labeled as "Garage, except as noted by Breaker 17."
Breaker 17 is labeled as "Single garage outlet, south wall, for freezer."
Since it's an older house that only had a few circuits when I moved in, the breaker for the original first floor circuit now reads something like:
"First Floor except as noted by Breakers 5, 7, 12, 14, 22, 27, and 29.
2nd floor landing light but not 1st floor landing light."Each of those breakers control circuits that have since been added to the first floor or split off from the original one. They are labeled in as much detail as required to make it clear what they do and do not control.
Box fill is the maximum number of conductors permitted for a given box size. In other words, you aren't allowed to put 5lbs of stuff into a 2lb bag.
That's why you put a junction box right outside the panel, combine 4 circuits, and then run one wire to a single breaker in the panel. No concerns about exceeding the box fill specs. ;-)
Please, please note the smiley!
Panels are always rated for the maximum number of breakers you can use. CTL panels have been in the code since the Johnson administration will actually keep you from putting in too many "mini" or piggy back breakers. Most of the time they will be rated for a full boat of mini/piggies tho. You will see things like 20/40. That means 20 full size slots or 40 dual breakers. The place people get in trouble is when they try to wire a multiwire (shared neutral) circuit to both sides of a piggy back breaker or a pair of minis in the same slot. That overloads the neutral. It should also be noted, there are a couple brands of breakers that allow doubling up circuits on them. Square D is an example.
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No; he's talking about the number of conductors in a given size of outlet box. There's a given quota of number vs volume (cu in) in a box in the Code--that's "fill".
It's not that large and almost certainly a shallow outlet box w/ the in/out feed/continuation to next in the chain if one chooses that box to add another branch to, that extra set of wires will push the box over the limit. (While not kosher, it's also probably the place I knowingly push the most, too... :) )
--
You're an engineer?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus
I think you'd be impressed with my directory.
I created an Excel spreadsheet that not only details what each breaker controls, but also, where appropriate, what it *doesn't* control.
As a simple example, I have a circuit for the garage lights & receptacles. In the garage I also have a single receptacle for the freezer, on it's own circuit.
Breaker 16 is labeled as "Garage, except as noted by Breaker 17."
Breaker 17 is labeled as "Single garage outlet, south wall, for freezer."
Since it's an older house that only had a few circuits when I moved in, the breaker for the original first floor circuit now reads something like:
"First Floor except as noted by Breakers 5, 7, 12, 14, 22, 27, and 29.
2nd floor landing light but not 1st floor landing light."Each of those breakers control circuits that have since been added to the first floor or split off from the original one. They are labeled in as much detail as required to make it clear what they do and do not control.
[skip a bunch of confusing stuff]
I made a floor plan using Google SketchUp. Each outlet, switch, and light has next to it a number. The number corresponds to a breaker with the corresponding number.
This map is glued to the inside of the breaker-box door.
Works for me.
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