What we need is a better solution to the CARB/EPA gasoline can bung hole threaded neck problem

[Stormin Mormon]

Wow, you do some good, and the county comes along and rips up the reflectors. That sounds like a bad place to live.

[Stormin Mormon]

Some thing new every day. Maybe if they used yellow reflectors, it would be acceptable?

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

.

[Danny D.]

gfretwell wrote, on Sat, 13 Sep 2014 21:48:58 -0400:

Truth be told, she has a friend whose husband fills her car for her, at the gas station, all the time, and that has been going on for years (probably their whole married lives).

She complained to me, at one point, a few years ago, that I never fill her car for her. So, I took the car and filled it, and she complained that I moved the seat and mirrors. So, I took the car and filled it (at night) and she didn't like the fact that I took her car.

Does it make sense? No. Is it what she wants. Yep.

Add to the fact we live nowhere near a gas station, where the nearest one is probably 15 miles away and it's not a cheapie, and then add that we're retired, and the kids don't live with us anymore - so we don't get out all that often anymore, and that means we have to actually go to a gas station as a specific chore.

Anyway, in the interest of marriage harmony, I came up with an easy solution to the problem. I calculated that she uses about five gallons a week, so, at first, I bought a handful of gas cans to cover a month or so.

But they kept bouncing around in the trunk, causing smelly spills, so, I hit upon the idea of ten fitting exactly in the trunk.

So, that's the reason for ten. That's 50 gallons. That lasts her about ten weeks. Every Sunday, I throw a towel on the roof of her car, pop open the 5-gallon can, stick a clean siphone hose in, suck to the black line I've marked, and shove it into the fuel filler inlet. I come back about five minutes later, and empty the remainder into the car using a long stem funnel.

It's quick. Easy. Clean. And, best of all, her gas tank is perpetually filled. Wouldn't *you* want your gas tank to always be full?

Anyway, as for the cost, the gas cans, for what crap they are, are horrendously expensive, about $25 each or so, with tax.

So, that's roughly about $250 in investment. Since I get gas at Costco (where the discount on Amex is something like 3 cents on the dollar, or about 12 cents on the gallon) or Safeway (where the discount on cash with the club card is something like 10 to

30 cents on the gallon up to 25 gallons), let's figure that I save, roughly 10 cents on a gallon over what she'd be paying (since she just would go to the nearest gas station).

At 10 cents a gallon, and 50 gallons a fill, that's about five dollars saved per fill. Problem is that $250/$5 is a big number, so, I can never say that I'm doing it for the money - but - longer term - after about 50 fills, the cans have paid for themselves. Sort of.

The problem, of course, is that those stinkin' nozzles break all the time. I've returned probably five or six while Blitz was still in business, and now I've had to replace two more after Blitz went bankrupt.

So, I'm really looking forward to spending another $2.50 or so per gas can to get rid of those idiotically designed nozzles (which I never use anyway).

The nozzles are bad in every sense of the word:

- They take three hands to hold and press and pour;

- Your arms will fall off with the weight of 5 gallons anyway;

- The nozzles end up breaking all the time!

- Worst yet, they prevent the trunk from closing properly.

A bung-hole cap will solve *all* those problems, and, it would still satisfy (I think) the EPA/CARB because their only goal is to keep the gasoline *inside* the can, which it would do just fine.

[Danny D.]

Dan Espen wrote, on Sat, 13 Sep 2014 23:53:23 -0400:

Naaah. Her fuel tank is 18 gallons. She uses about 5 gallons a week. So, one fillup by me, lasts her about 10 weeks.

The thing to remember is that it is absolutely no bother whatsoever to me to fill up the 50 gallons in my trunk.

For others, that might be a problem; but, for me, it's not a problem in any way. Neither is the storage of the gasoline as I have acres of land and nobody around to be bothered by it.

I've checked with the Fire Marshall, who told me there is no restriction on portable gas containers. I checked with CHP who said there was only the 600 pound hazardous chemical transportion limit, in addition to "approved containers" being required. I checked with the planning and zoning guys, who said that they'd recommend OSHA-compliant sheds (louvers, spill pan, etc.) but that there were no country storage requirements. I even checked with CARB, who told me that tanks over a certain size had to have a specific vent valve setup - but even the 50-gallon drums were far below the size (I think it was 300 gallons or something like that).

The funny thing about all these specs other than the CHP spec was that the *number* of containers didn't matter.

That is, for the EPA, for example, if you had a dozen

299 gallon containers, you wouldn't be subject to the vent cap recovery restrictions that a single 300 gallon container requires.

Such are government regulations ...

[Danny D.]

Pico Rico wrote, on Sat, 13 Sep 2014 20:48:25 -0700:

Yeah, we know.

-> Blue is for water.

-> White is for single lanes.

-> Yellow is for double lanes.

-> Red is for the wrong way.

The local ACE hardware only had blue, so, we bought blue.

We didn't really think anyone would be fooled by thinking there was a hydrant nearby since the only hydrant is miles away down the hill.

They would probably have ripped up the white ones anyway, but, what we're going to do is play 'what-a-mole' and put them back up, only we haven't yet decided whether to use the white non-reflective oval shaped ones, or the white reflective square ones.

The oval shape non reflective ones are a lot cheaper, and we need to put in a few hundred, so, it matters because our budget determines how many we put up.

[Danny D.]

Brent wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 04:17:51 +0000:

I had spoken to the guys who ripped them up. They said they got a work order, and that was it. They didn't give any other reason.

They did say that they normally paint over crosswalks that people paint in the road, and that this middle line thing was new to them.

Anyway, they suggested the white non-reflective ovals, and/or the white reflective squares.

The homeowners have elected one person (not me thankfully) to deal with the county to try to get a bunch of mirrors put up. I hate dealing with the government, as it's easier to just do it ourselves.

So, next Sunday, we're gonna put them back (only white), and see how long our whack-a-mole game goes on with the county.

[Danny D.]

Pico Rico wrote, on Sat, 13 Sep 2014 22:02:22 -0700:

There aren't any hydrants within *miles* of these reflectors, so, while I do understand that statement, it's unlikely anyone would think there are hydrants nearby, especially since the hydrant is indicated by a single reflector (or two, when on a curve) but never a huge line of a few dozen of them.

Anyway, we're gonna play whack-a-mole with the county when we get some white non-reflective dots, or the more expensive white reflective ones. The game plan is next Sunday. So, if/when they go in, I'll snap a photo for you guys (they look great at night since there is no other source of light for miles around).

[Danny D.]

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 07:55:38 -0400:

Yellow is for multiple-lane roads here in California. White is the appropriate color for single-lane roads.

The problem is that the road is, technically, too narrow for *any* centerline. That's what the line-painting crew told me when I asked why they strip the very bottom half mile but not the rest of the road.

So, by putting white, we'd be in keeping with one rule, but in violation of the other. That's why we don't think the county will put them in, but we did assign a neighbor to ask them to put a mirror in.

However, some residents argued that the mirror would actually make it more dangerous, as people would *assume* their is no car, and they might miss a person walking or something.

So, we liked the idea of the *bumps* which keep tires to one side of the narrow road.

[Danny D.]

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 07:54:32 -0400:

Hey Stormin, Wanna know something that's a bit funny?

The guys who put in most of those reflectors ran out of the brown construction glue that they had used. You can see most of them have brown gunk on them.

However, in the picture, is one with *black* epoxy. I put those in! The original guys ran out of their glue, so I volunteered to put the next set in, and I used those rolls of epoxy that you find in the box stores.

Heh heh ... I had to *ask* the county road crew whether they found some were harder than others, and, guess what?

At least mine were the hardest for them to remove, and, hence, the most damaged as you can see in those pictures.

All those reflectors are only about two months old, so, they all were damaged by the road crew removal process.

heh heh ... see? I learned *something* from this eclectic advisory a.h.r newsgroup!

[J Burns]

The old US military jerry cans were made to transport gas safely. I think they're available at surplus stores, but maybe they don't have caps.

A 55-gallon bung should screw in fine, with the proper gasket. When you're getting gas on the way home, take the can from the trunk, fill it, screw in the bung, and put it in the trunk without much fear of leaking.

Some stations will shut off the pump if the can isn't red to meet DOT requirements. Spray paint.

[Stormin Mormon]

Some decades ago, my family went on vacation to California. We had the privilege of playing Whackamole. I tried to "use the force". The local kids had figured out the order of the moles and were getting higher scores than I did.

Mom and Dad used to refer to the "whackamole car" we drove, every time you repair some thing, some thing else breaks.

[Stormin Mormon]

At least the county guys had to work for their money, this time. Wish the gov't would respect the wisdom of the populace.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

.

[Danny D.]

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:31:48 -0400:

Yea. And they removed the plastic garbage can that I had bolted to the end curve of a guardrail where people drink & leave debris.

It's getting harder and harder to be a good Samaritan nowadays ...

[gfretwell]

I ran into this myself. I put a trash can at a small beach on the river and I was emptying it regularly. The state said, if it was on their property, they were responsible but they did not have a budget for this. They took the can and it is still outside the ranger station. I put a PVC pipe in the river to mark my water sample site (state sanctioned monitoring) and I had to argue that I was capable of maintaining that too. Since I was already on the volunteer list for the offshore side they relented because they had a way to deal with the "expenses"

[Zaky Waky]

"Danny D." wrote in news:lv59i1$816$3@dont- email.me:

You carry 50 gals of gasoline in a car trunk??

You're even dumber than I thought on so many levels.

1) dumb for carrying that much gas in a car trunk 2) dumber for thinking that people here would think that was a great idea.

You are not only dumb, but dangerous to those around you.

What an asshole.

[bob haller]

e bay has a variety of what appears older styly gas caps and fillers. one includes the missing vent.

probably imports from china

[Danny D.]

Zaky Waky wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:43:17 +0000:

Thanks. But, guess what?

You carry something like 18 gallons in your car too. Every single day.

And, guess what? We're both using approved containers, and, yes, of course, they're approved for transportation.

Oh, and guess what else? Everyone (but you, apparently), carries jugs of gasoline in their car, to get from the gas station to home.

Why?

Lawn mowers. Chain saws. Hedge trimmers. Wood chippers. I have 'em all, and so does everyone else on this ng.

Oh, and guess what else? Do you know how *dangerous* these gasoline powered tools are?

Just look at the statistics. Answer: Far more dangerous than transporting gasoline in approved containers in legal amounts.

:)

[Dan Espen]

Danny,

I would not call you an asshole, that's just completely uncalled for. But trying to set up an equivalence between what you are doing and the average car gas tank is wrong too.

Remember the Pinto and the exploding gas tank?

Gas tanks are designed for their purpose.

Since my tank is 11 GALS, I have an average of 5 gals on board. But it's much more secure than a plastic can in the trunk.

[Danny D.]

Dan Espen wrote, on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:19:00 -0400:

Hi Dan, I was just responding to the asshole comment, and I was being as nice as I could be, by explaining that life isn't without danger, and, danger has to be put into perspective.

With 11 gallons to your tank, it's safe to assume that you do not drive a Hummer. Why not? A Hummer is clearly safer than whatever it is you drive (based on sheer weight in a head-on collision, for example).

And, is it safe to assume that we all push lawnmowers which have whirling blades? That's not safe.

Likewise, most of us fire up a chainsaw a few times a year. Isn't that not safe?

How about the guys who ride motorcycles? Isn't that not even close to safe?

Life was never about being a timid little rabbit, as, if it was, I'd be scared out of my wits about the rattlers, black widow spiders, bobcats, coyotes, and mountain lions that abound where I live.

Truth be told, I'm more worried about the neighbor's dogs getting loose and biting someone, than I am about the gasoline spontaneously combusting in my trunk while transporting safely in legal containers and amounts.

[dpb]

On 09/15/2014 3:30 PM, Danny D. wrote: ...

...

I'd not worry (much, anyway) about spontaneous combusting, either. The real hazard is the accident while it's there--that'd at least have pretty decent odds of becoming exciting in a hurry.