What defines a tree?

[Matt]

OK, so there was a 40' elm tree in my backyard... quite dead, I can assure you.

No leaves on any branches for 2 years.

So I had it removed.

Opened my mail today to find a ticket for $250 from the H.A. for not asking permission before I cut it down.

And, although there are a few extenuating circumstances that would probably cause the DA to not prosecute if this were Law and Order - my H.A. seems to be particularly stupid with respect to common sense if they can squeeze someone for $$$.

So - I ask you. Is a dead tree still a tree, or is it merely a big stick of decaying wood upended in the dirt?

At what point does a tree cease to become a tree, and become firewood?

[Travis Jordan]

It's always a tree. Sometimes a dead tree, but nonetheless a tree.

Here in my little community the city requires a permit before you can remove a tree, dead or alive. They have been known to require the planting of new trees before they will approve even a dead tree removal permit. The result: people leave the dead tree until it falls down on utility lines, and then the power company cuts it down. Apparently the utility company can remove trees without a permit. Or maybe they just pay the fines.

Your government in action.

[Matt]

Hmmmmm. I disagree. If something dies, then certainly it becomes something else.

If an old human dies, he/she is no longer a human - he/she is a corpse.

An example: If a car were double parked, with a live 40 year old behind the wheel, who gets the ticket?

Now, replace the 40 year old with a corpse. Who gets the ticket now?

A dead tree cannot be considered a tree; it is a pile of wood waiting to collapse.

IMHO.

But, live tree or not, there are lots of trees on my humble lot. Reading through the H.A. rules tonight, I noticed there aren't any regulations about pruning a tree.

If I should start pruning a tree, and keep trimming, trying to achieve a balanced look, and then ... suddenly notice that there aren't any branches left, but simply an oversized stick stuck in the dirt..... did I cut down a tree?

I think not.

[Steve B.]

In this case tell them you didn't cut down the tree. You simply pruned off the dead material :-)

[Matt]

Yes, Exactly!

And I'm sure all the highbrows will be thrilled to see the 5 big sticks stuck in the dirt as they walk by.

And when they ask what happened... I will tell the truth.

I cut down the one tree because it was dead, and it cost me $250.

In order to keep the other trees from dying, and the associated $250 fine - I pruned them back a small amount.

[gfretwell]

This is a hazard, not a tree. If it fell on someone else's house you would be liable.

[Matt]

CAN I GET AN AMEN?

TY.

[Norminn]

A tree is still a tree, even if it falls down when nobody is listening. Read your HA documents - they print them for a good reason. It's a stiff penalty, but it is probably written in the documents. If the tree was dead before your purchased your home, you might have a chance if you wrote the HA and told them it was a hazard and should have been removed long ago. Or, let them put a lien on your house and die before you pay it :o) In Florida, HA's and condominiums have a different set of laws, and individual HA's or condo assns then each have their own declarations, bylaws, blah, blah, blah. I believe there is a per-incident limit on fines in Florida; wouldn't hurt to check out the law where you are. Cheaper to pay than fight, unless you are absolutely assured of winning. Loser pays legal fees here.

[Norminn]

clipped

That's a code violation where I live.

[Joseph Meehan]

Yea, a dead tree.

In this case, I would guess that the reason for the law would determine if a dead tree would be included.

If the permit was required to assure that the tree was safely removed without falling on a neighbor's car, then dead or live I would think you would need a permit. On the other hand if the only reason for the permit was to control what trees were removed or demand replacement, then maybe a dead tree might not be included.

[Matt]

I have a master tree trimmer license.

[badgolferman]

This is why I will never own a home in a neighborhood that has a Homeowner's Association. I don't need someone telling me how to maintain my house and what color it should be. However, based upon the rationalizations I hear coming from you I can understand why they have done this. You would be better off going to the board pleading ignorance and asking for forgiveness. Something tells me that you have pissed them off in the past and this is how they are coming back at you.

[Matt]

Sorry, golferfuckhead; the voices in your head are lying to you again.

I spent $120,000 bringing this house up to par, reversing the last 20 years of neglect.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

So do I. It was made by Stihl.

I wonder why people voluntarily move to areas of the United Soviet Socialist Homeowners in the first place. Uncle Nikita will review your request to trim the dead tree on your property. Mr. Gorbachev called, he said your garage door is open.

[Matt]

I hear ya, Ed, I hear ya.

I moved here to get away from people like me, I suppose.

[badgolferman]

You have just proved my point.

[Matt]

What, that you are a pompous, horse's ass?

[Doug Miller]

It'll never work.

[Matt]

Yep.

Reminds me of you.

[badgolferman]

You must wonder why people pick on you all the time. You ought to run for the President of the Homeowner's Association. Your personality is perfect for the job.