well tank problem

[Tekkie©]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 18:54:56 -0400, Ralph Mowery posted for all of us to digest...

Just a SWAG is it back feeding from the water heater?

[Tekkie©]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 12:45:27 -0400, Frank posted for all of us to digest...

Just get eyes resynchronized :D

[Tekkie©]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 11:29:57 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 posted for all of us to digest...

You don't want the manufacturer to keep making replacement tanks? $$$$

[Ralph Mowery]

That would be a good guess except the water line was opened to the air so no pressure was in the water lines.

[invalid unparseable]

Next time wife was in dining room and lights in kitchen began to blink I turned down the dimmer switch and they stopped. Two switches are on the same circuit and back to back with wall between them.

As far as stove, I had not mentioned we needed hinges on door replaced and service tech decided to change stove heating element which was apparently failing. With parts and repairs including electrician visit cost about half the cost of the stove. Not happy with Whirlpool stove only 2 years old. We had done nothing to cause hinges to fail.

[rbowman]

When I was a kid our water tank had a standard Schraeder valve. When the flow would get sluggish or the pump was coming on frequently we would drain the water and pump it up with a tire pump.

I didn't know they had bladders until a few years ago they changed them out in the communal well house. While the bladder itself could be replaced apparently it cost as much as the entire tank and wasn't worth the hassle.

[gfretwell]

You know they are bad if the line pressure goes to zero (pump off, valve open) and there is still water in the tank. Mine aren't screwed down and there is enough flex in the pipe to bump it off the floor. You know right away if it is full of water by the weight.

[gfretwell]

I assume it is just the constant flexing and if you are not diligent about checking the air the bladder gets over extended. They are replaceable. The problem is finding the bladder if it is a bladder tank. Some are diaphragm tanks and you can't replace that. I have never found a bladder for a tank when I needed one. My tanks are diaphragm tanks now.

I thought about this for a while and the only thing that makes sense is that there is some kind of pocket that holds water, even when the system is at zero pressure and that reduced volume maintains more air pressure. That's why I said lift up that tank and see if it is waterlogged.

[gfretwell]

I like it ;-) That can be an issue, particularly if the bladder is bad since you do not have that much storage to take that expansion.

[gfretwell]

That was my take on it although if I could find the right bladder for the fiber glass one I have I would do it. That thing was tough and lasted a real long time.

[Pat]

I will guess your bladder has a pinhole leak in it. When the water pressure is at its max, a small amount of water leaks into the air chamber. It stops leaking when the air chamber gets up to the 60 psi you have observed. When the water side pressure it lowered, the leak seals itself. The air side is left at the system max pressure but is still mostly air. I believe your problem will be solved when your tank is replaced.

[Bob]

Personally, I'd just replace the tank but if you want to prove to yourself that the diaphragm is bad...

Bleed the air from the air side of the diaphragm and unscrew/remove the Schrader valve.

Shut off pump breaker and drain the tank. Remove tank and turn upside down so Schrader valve is on bottom.

I suspect you'll see water dripping from the Schrader valve opening.

[Ralph Mowery]

That sounds like what may be the problem. Anyway a new tank should be instlled Monday.

I worked many years solving problems where I worked on mostly electrical and instruments but some other systems. I always liked to hae a good idea of what was causing the problem before I replaced things as it could run into thousands of dollars.

[Ralph Mowery]

The tank is going to be replaced MOnday.

If the bladder had a small hole in it and water was in the bladder I would have thought water would come out of the Schrader valve, but maybe there was still enough air in the tank to keep that from hapning.

To start with I thought the tank had a broken bladder, but just did not see how with the water line open I could have 60 psi of air in the bladder the 2nd time I bled some air out to the 38 PSI it should have with no pressure on the water line. I guess a small hole would sort of seal its self for a short period of time and hold the 60 psi air pressure.

If there is much water left in the tank after it is removed I am sure it will be very heavy.

[Tekkie©]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:40:07 -0400, [e-mail] posted for all of us to digest...

I forgot about diaphragm tanks. Nice images here to look at differences between them.

[Tekkie©]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 09:43:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery posted for all of us to digest...

Well, (nice one there aye)it's Monday and what's happened? Huh, huh, huh. (Just like my wife)

Is your wallet lighter now? Inquiring minds want know!

[Ralph Mowery]

The tank was replaced this morning. We took the tank to the yard and nothing was comming out of the 1 inch hole in the bottom. Took the stem out of the schrader air valve and water shot out about 20 feet from it for a while. Probably under the 60 psi of the well system. No water ever came out the 1 inch water hole. The plumber said the bladder was probalby acting as a one way valve and when the water pressure was off of it the rubber pressed against the side of the tank and held the water in.

The wallet is some what lighter. About $ 425 . There were a few other parts added that needed to be. I even asked him for an extra valve to cut the tank off. That included the tank that is about 2 1/2 feet tall, some kind of special T connection, pressure gauge, drain valve, over pressure valve, and shutoff valve. Took him just over an hour from the time he got here to the time he left. He had the tank with him as I had sent him a picture of the way the old tank was installed.

I think he charged a reasonable price for all the parts and labor.

Everything seems to be fine now. The water runs for a while befor the pump starts up. Before it would cycle several times before it would fill up agallon jug. I was filling the jug to water some plants.

[Ralph Mowery]

There are some differences in the bladder and diaphragm, but not really that much in the way they work.

[invalid unparseable]

Happy ending. Friend once said, it is not a problem if you can solve it with a check.

[trader_4]

Sounds like a reasonable deal for what you got. Who's idea was it to send a picture? If it was the plumber, that shows he's smart and trying to save people money with less trips. Never heard of a service guy doing that before, but sounds logical and it's a good idea.