vinyl window construction

[badgolferman]

I am about to pull the trigger on replacement windows and have a question regarding the construction of vinyl windows. Three different brands of windows have been quoted to me and I want to know if anyone has any experience or opinions on which models are better construction.

Silverline/Andersen 8500 Series LowE/Argon/Foam Filled 0.30

B.F. Rich Horizon LowE/Argon 0.30 Alside Excalibur LowE/Argon 0.30 They all meet the new standard for the Federal Credit. The Silverline has a foam-filled frame for rigidity. The Alside I was shown had metal bars inside the frame although the website doesn't show that. The B.F. Rich doesn't seem to have either.

The Alside is Window World's model and they were the most expensive quote. The other two are local contractors that have been in business for quite a while. All windows seem to have similar warranties.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the benefits of the foam-filled frames vs. the other two?

[Joe]

Foam filling should reduce heat transmission, effect on strength minimal, probably not that important in a well built house. Frankly, it doesn't seem logical to have steel reinforcements in a vinyl environment because of the radical difference in thermal expansion, but I may be wrong. Given your situation, I would consider Andersen and a local contractor if their quote is reasonable, although one Andersen franchise operation was grossly overpriced to friends of mine. Windows World locally seems to have a similar problem of making their whole annual profit from a few uninformed consumers. Bottom line, if you feel uneasy, keep looking. Replacement windows are very profitable, and most of the products are fairly decent. In the case of my friends that passed on the Andersen franchise quote, they found a local contractor that had specialized in window work for 30 odd years and had a quality product for less than half the price. Good luck.

Joe

[DerbyDad03]

Depending on who is pushing what product line, you'll get varying opinions on the virtues of foam filled windows.

I'd toss out the rigidity argument in residential applications. I don't think it's a factor worth considering.

As far as the benefits of foam for efficiency, there are lots of studies on the internet. Some say it improves the R-value, some say the contact of foam to vinyl actually increases heat transfer when compared to a dead air space.

Most of the research I did and people I spoke indicated that foam filled is not worth the extra cost.

[Van Chocstraw]

I used Energy Star Lo E squared mfg code sil. I don't know if that's Silverline or not. Nice double hung double glass windows with double locks and tilt for cleaning. About $150 each. Home Depot.

[ransley]

Andersons glass finishing is a unique process in which the glass is coated at the molecular level in a 20 million dollar machine, its better than my Pella LowE argon in clarity, it has better CDF rating than pella, Anderson honors its warranty I have found.I dont know the other brands but CR has done major comparisons in the past. The anderson rep told me about 95% of warrantys are not honored because of hack installs. Metal transmits more. Are all the other specs equal, air infiltration, CDF,VLT, SHG. Anderson has always been top line. You need to verify plumb, level and square before you pay or you can have no warranty.

[aemeijers]

badgolferman wrote:

Others on here will disagree (violently) with me, but IMHO, vinyl is not a suitable structural material for something like a window frame. Just too flexible. Vinyl-clad on the outside, sure, for weather resistance, but there should be a real window frame inside the plastic. For something you want to last 30+ years at a minimum, the additional per-year cost for real 'old work' windows simply is not that high. And if your current window frames are in good shape, and the problem is just leaky or single-pane sashes, there are several quality sash-replacement choices available. When I bought this place, I must have looked at 100 houses. Any houses with vinyl windows over 5 years old, they were already badly showing their age, felt rattly, and in general looked like crap to my eye. The 1960 builder-grade wood windows in this place worked fine. I still need to replace them, since they are only single-pane, but the wood has held up well. I saw firsthand several hundred houses go up in central Indiana from early-1960s to early-1970s, most with Anderson wood windows, which was the default brand for my father's construction company. I still see some of those houses from the inside on my visits back to the old hometown, and the windows mostly look like new, absent any abuse, and given normal upkeep. I start to accept vinyl windows when I see them lasting 50-100 years like quality wood windows routinely do.

But like I said, there are those on here who will defend their vinyl to the death.

-- aem sends...

[badgolferman]

0.30 >

According to the salesman Andersen makes the frames and they get the two-pane glass inserts from a different manufacturer and insert into the frame.

The quote with the Silverline/Andersen windows was for 12 double-hung and 1 picture window with wrapping. Total $4040. This is why I do not believe these are top-line windows.

[badgolferman]

>

My current windows are wood framed with aluminum tracks and no pulleys. They are very difficult to move up/down. Can the sashes actually be replaced without disassembling the whole window?

[BillGill]

When I was at the home show a couple of weeks ago a man at one of the booths told me that mostly all the manufacturers use the same window cores. The difference would be in the construction and installation.

Bill

[aemeijers]

In most cases, yes. The only exception would be very low end windows where the stop rail (I think that is the term- the inside trim right up against the sashes) is not removable. Most window companies do free estimates- find one that has other-than-vinyl in their ads, such as 'renewal by anderson', and have them come take a look.

And like others on here have said- a quality installation is just as important as quality windows.

-- aem sends...

[Larry Stallworth]

The foam filled frames are for insulation. You will find you can get Alsides with foam filled frame (at least you could 5 yrs ago). Check a cut-away of the frames to compare. The more cavities, the better the structure (rigid), and the better for insulation, believe it or not. I don't care to go into how it insulates better, by having more cavities. Something else to consider, Alsides uses virgin vinyl, not recycled vinyl, I don't know about the other 2.

Did anyone tell you how these will be installed? They fit inside your existing frame, if the frame is wood. I have heard in the south, they also install them in aluminum existing frames.

I can tell you, Alsides has one of the best warranties in the business. I know for a fact, they honor the warranty. However, I wouldn't purchase them through Window World. Do you have a Alside Supply listed near you? They are wholesale only, but, they will give you some names of installers. You will get a better price, than through WW.

[aasberry]

Do you get much wind? Vinyl frames might flex in high wind. Mine did. Sashes were replaced with commercial typw with metal inserts.

Ask if the window has to be completely closed in rain. Believe it or not, some have the outside rim of the frame higher than the inside, especially if the screens are installed from the inside.

[ransley]

Plastics are not all equal, there are strength ratings published you have to check, some are commercial grade I have seen.

[clare]

If you get windows made with Rehau Profile vinyl you have a window that is structurally as good as they get - rivalling a wood frame . This is a German design and I don't know of any "cheapies" using it.

[benick]

Why would I care if my windows last 100 years ??? LOL...The Pella Wood Casement Windows I replaced with Vinyl Double Hung didn't.....LOL....And at this stage of my life the less maintance the BETTER....LOL....