Unable to break thread on toilet water supply valve

[billsahiker]

I must be getting weak in my old age because I cannot unscrew the threaded fitting on the half inch valve where it is threaded onto the copper water pipe(which comes up through the floor in my house). I put a large crescent wrench on the flat part of the valve and a large pipe wrench on the copper water pipe. It won't budge. Any suggestions before I call a plumber? I tried tapping the fitting pretty hard. I bought a quarter turn halve inch valve to replace the old because the old one is leaking water out the handle. The metal in the old valve is in bad shape so I would not want to try to replace the rubber bushings and re-use it.

Bill

[RickH]

Heat the threads a little with a propane torch then try again.

[RickH]

Oops, but watch out for melting the solder.

[willshak]

on 8/10/2007 3:41 PM [e-mail] said the following:

If you had to use a pipe wrench on the copper pipe, then it is not screwed in, but soldered in, and no amount of turning will loosen it. You'll have to cut the pipe below the valve and then unsolder the valve from the top pipe before you can install a new valve, which may require soldering or installation of pressure fittings. If you are not comfortable with this, get a plumber.

[billsahiker]

I can see exposed threads on the copper pipe. Could it still be soldered and not threaded?

[willshak]

on 8/10/2007 4:26 PM [e-mail] said the following:

Perhaps not on that end, but what about the top? Even if screwed in there, there has to be a union fitting somewhere in the pipe above or below the valve that unscrews apart so that the valve and pipe threads can unscrew. Look here for what the union looks like. If you don't have at least one of these, cutting or unsoldering is the only answer.

large nut in the center turns freely and unscrews the two ends. They made be copper or brass, but they work the same way.

[mkirsch1]

If it's threaded copper PIPE (like iron pipe, except made from copper), and not the more common copper tubing (which is soldered), then you can probably forget about ever getting that valve off. The steel and copper and moisture created galvanic corrosion that has permanently welded the two together.

Make sure you're seeing what you think you're seeing. Could this valve be attached to the copper via a compression fitting? Then you'd need to turn the nut one way and the valve the other.

[willshak]

on 8/10/2007 4:38 PM willshak said the following:

I didn't answer the question fully. Yes, the screwed in part could be soldered in but that would be a hack job and is not usually done by plumbers with the right fittings. Solder fittings involve soldering directly with the copper pipe and and a valve made to accept soldered copper pipe. See any silver around the threads?

[billsahiker]

The copper pipe is definintely threaded and I see no evidence of solder. The uniion is not copper -silver colored so some sort of alloy. Someone else suggested the threads are corroded, which makes sense to me. Having been around boats alot I know about galvanic corrosion. In this case, the alloy would have corrorded and seized the joint. I am starting to think I need a plumber.

Bill

[tnom]

I have never seen threaded copper. Are you sure?

[dpb]

Not except compression fitting for tubing.

Sweat fitting could be a threaded adapter, perhaps is what he's seeing. W/O pitchter, just guessing...

--

[billsahiker]

I take that back. It oxidezed green, but upon scratching it, it appears to be steel. The exposed threads are badly corroded. At first I thought the corrosion was old pipe joint compound, but upon picking at it, it seems more like corrosion.

Bill

[willshak]

on 8/10/2007 5:27 PM [e-mail] said the following:

Copper male adapter

female adapter

[Stormin Mormon]

I have met several very fine men who are excellent citizens, father, etc. But who mix up right and left. Is it possible in this case?

I'll assume that the pipe is close to the floor, and that you will put the wrenches above the pipe.

The pipe wrench on the tubing from the wall applies turning force this way

------------>>

The crescent wrench on the valve applies turning force that way

[valvejob]

Yes, you need someone, either yourself or a plumber, to cut off the joint and put on a new copper threaded joint as shown below in this thread.

Do not twist off and ruin the pipe!

[Jeff Wisnia]

Or a BFH appropriately applied to the end of the wrench handle.

Jeff

[Jeff Wisnia]

If you have patience, a Dremel, and some abrasive slitting wheels for it you could try carefully slicing one or both sides of the female threaded part of the valve to the point where application of a large screwdriver in the slot you make may spring it open enough to break the corrosion bond.

Even if you slice a litlle bit of a line up the side of the male pipe threads, chances are good that a new valve will seal to it if you use teflon tape AND joint compound when screwing it on.

If the threads on the pipe turn out to be mostly rotted off when you get the valve off then the depth of the doo-doo you're in will have increased significantly.

Good Luck. Let us know how you make out.

Jeff

[terry]

Thanks for those words Chris. I am 73 approaching 74 and in last few years have found I have to use a little more brains than brute force to accomplish tasks! Also I depend more on wheelbarrow, and hand truck etc. Sometimes just a matter of planning work. Anyway; back to stacking firewood for the winter.

[Stormin Mormon]

Extender pipe works better. BFH tends to make the wrench jump off and go klunk on the floor.

[Stormin Mormon]

Amazing what an old chrome dome like me can accomplish with a little planning. I went out to mow the lawn today. An old mower, with no power drive. Take it slow, and have a glass of water on the front step so I can take a drink each time I pass the front door.

Couple of years ago, my wholesale house moved adress. They put out the word for volunteer help, to load and unload the truck. Myself and a dozen or so fellows arrived. I got to chatting with a senior citizen. We were carrying 30 pound bottles of refrigerant (one in each hand) off the truck long after the young pups had all gone for burgers and soda.

I just can't figure out why business hire young inexperienced kids when there are so many good workers available.