Trying to drill out toilet tank.

[micky]

Did I mention that the toilet tank gasket on one toilet started to leak?

Why when they have a whole big tank for space is the slot in the brass bolts holding the tank on so shallow?

Can't use some methods to remove bolts because underneath they are surrounded on 4 sides by part of the toilet bow.

Hard even to put vice-grips on the wing nut to keep it from spinning.

It was hard to drill through the bolt heads, hard to start drilling because of the slot, but eventually I got the first one started, somewhat off center. I don't know how much bigger the hole is than the bolt so I don't know how much leeway I have but I drilled at an angle and eventually came out very close or even exactly on the center, and the bolt head broke off. Hole not much bigger than bolts. :-(

Started on the second one and drilled hole that ended up even more off center. A very small part of the hole shows the rubber gasket underneath but it's too off-center to break the bolt.

Any suggestions how to get a hole in a brass bolt back on center? Smaller bit? Bigger bit? Grindstones? Angle drilling? Newer bit? Older duller bit?

Can i freeze the bolt with liquid nitrogen and then just break it off by tapping?

My ex-girlfriend says I should buy a new toilet. They range from 100 for Glacier Bay, the Home depot house brand (How bad are they?) to 300 or so? What would you spend? How much for a plumber to do the whole job? (She thinks I have money, but I'm savig it to buy a plantation in Costa Rica.)

[Thomas]

Rip that bad boy out. Spend 300 for nice enough, 200 cheap, 100 for a slum rental. Zero for a plumber because you know what you are doing. If you were my neighbor in good standing, a six pack and pizza for the install. After the old is out and clean, under an hour to take a dump.

[hubops]

But then we'd all miss the delightful repartee that is sure to ensue. John T.

[trader_4]

If you can get a grinder in there, grind the head off. Otherwise I would move up in drill size, you might wind up drilling the edge of the hole, but I don't think it's going to crack the tank.

[micky]

Okay. For some reason I thought it was even more brittle than it is.

The first one, the hole I started was close to the center, but I didn't clamp the wingnut at first, and when the bolt spun, it just took 10 second or less to wear the rubber washer so that it spun off. That meant from then on, if I went through the metal head but not above the shank, the ceramic part was right there.

Clamping the wingnut was one of the hardest parts. No way to get two hands under the toilet at the same time, and my full-size Vice-grips are hard to hold while open, put in place, and then move my hand back to squeeze it shut. Still I did that once and once was enough.

Now I could see the first hole and I knew how big it was.

For the second screw I tried to clamp it right away, but this side was next to the sink cabinet and even harder. I don't know if I was in the wrong place or the the wingnut was 90^ off, or the jaws were too big to get in there sideways. So I tried a mini-vice grip. Hard to put on but much easier. Then it came off, so I tried a medium size Craftsman vice grip. These might be 30 or 40 or more years old (I got them, with other stuff, from a guy who was retiring. So maybe their design improved.) and they wouldn't stay open as much as they were set for, so even harder to put on, and I went back to the mini size, about like a Derringer compared to a standard gun.

That kept the rubber gasket from being damaged before I was through thhe head, but I started farher from the center.

Then it finally dawned on me where the suggestions for the hack saw were, between the tank and bowl!!! I went looking for the one I have that only holds the blade at the end. Found one like that but the blade was worn out and it seemed to do nothing (though of course I can't see it). I can't rmemeber where my spare blades are. But I found a back saw, with hardened teeth. Can you use that for brass?

I went back to the drill. My newish hammer drill spins too fast so I used the 3/8" drill I found covered in grease lying alone on a sidewalk in an industrial area of Brooklyn. It gets hot when it runs, but it worked better for this than the new one. I moved the hole closer to the center, with s combination of big and small bits, Big to make a crater and small to drill into the side of the crater.

Eventually I had cut 300^ of the circle around the shank but it still wouldn't bend off. Brass is pretty strong stuff. They should do things with it. Okay, now it's off. (Continued...)

[micky]

The gasket came off in pieces, and there is a bunch of black sealant around it that came off in little pieces. I guess it was leaking, not for me, during the 4 years before I bought the house.

And there is a 1/2 inch rubber dowel in the back right corner. I think I found another one on the floor 6 months or a year ago. Didnt' know where it came from. I probably took it to the basement. In the old days I could go straight to it, but not now. But I can find some other rubber thing that height.

Do I need this? I thought it just rested on the 3" water connection and was stabilized by the two bolts.

The sealant means it had been taken apart, and it wasn't assembled like Eljer seem to be (at least now, don't know about 40 years ago), with, for each of the two bolts, a washer, lock washer, and nut under the tank, and then a rubber washer and another nut under the bowl. If he had done that that would have been two other legs (albeit metal nuts, not rubber) it might rest on and maybe the rubber dowel wouldn't have been needed.

[TimR]

It can be a pain working jobs like this in tight spaces, with the risk of cracking a toilet (and the pieces can be razor sharp.)

I had a similar problem years back with a sink faucet. It didn't want to come out, and it was too hard to work underneath. So I took the whole sink off and brought it into the backyard, where I had good light and room to work from all sides.

Your best bet would have been a new toilet. But failing that, just pull the thing, carry it to where you want to work on it. Then a new wax ring, which you probably needed anyway by this time.

[trader_4]

No idea about the rubber dowels. Maybe it's time for a new toilet, which is a sure fix.

[micky]

As I had said, the original rubber gasket came off in pieces and some black sealant came off in little pieces. When I first saw this, I thought the prior owner had hired a hack plumber who just added sealant, but then I remembered that the prior owner caulked all over the place and it all looked terrible. Loads of extra caulk. So *he's* the one who patched the toilet. (He also painted the doorknobs in flat paint and patched semi-gloss with flat, and iirc flat with semi-gloss. But he was very good with plants.) For that matter the brick layers left loads of extra mortar on the joints, but I spent an hour and got it all off where people standing at the front door would notice and maybe 3 times that area. It broke right off at the right spot.

Still the rubber dowels were already there or he managed to find two, to keep the tank from rocking. (The other two toilets are very stable) The dowel I found on the floor, I should have put in the medicine chest in that room, but I have one more place to look, the to-be-sorted boxes in the basement.

If it's not there, I'll buy this

this You get 20 instead of 10 but the diameter is smaller and I only need one.

Eight or nine dollars is a lot of money for one little piece of rubber, so maybe I'll glue 3 or 4 faucet washers togeher in a stack. What's a good glue for rubber washers? I probably have it. If the glue would stick one end of the stack to the toilet that would be good too, although they weren't glued before.

[Bob F]

Super glue works wonders on rubber. They even make o-ring kits with a roll of round rubber and a guide to make 45 degree beveled guts for gluing.

[micky]

For sure.

You are not the only to suggest this but this ng is called alt.HOME REPAIR. Not alt.BUY NEW. If you buy new it turns the old toilet into scrap which takes up space in a landfill. And it wastes my money, plus even with my bad back I have to carry it home and up the stairs.

The bowl is still full of water. I could empty that into the tub, if I don't drop it in the process, and then I should take it down stairs and out into the yard? And back up again with my aching back? It took an elapsed time of 2-3 hours to drill out the bolts.

I don't think I need one. The tank wobbled for the last few months but not the bowl. I had filled and flushed it about 5 times before I started on the tank. We shall see once I'm done.

[Scott Lurndal]

Although, to be fair, 'home repair' includes replacing items within the home (like a new downspout, or replacement kitchen fan or new toilet). If this was 'alt.toilet.repair' you may have had a valid point.

[micky]

Toilets are far more often and far more easily repaired than damaged downspouts

I absolutely had a great point.

[micky]

No kidding?!

I think I have some.

I've tried superglue on more htan one occasion and it never works for me, but I don't like to give up. (It doesnt' even stick to my skin (what it was famous for when it came out.))

[Bob F]

It still sticks to my skin. Maybe you have a bad batch?

[micky]

It was I think mor e than one time, more than one brand. I guess I'm a greaser.

But I was in the basement and I found Gorilla Glue, that I brought up stairs to read the label.

Then I found an unopened packate of Loctit e QuickTite SUPER GLUE with a brush and a no-tip bottle. Perfect if it hasnt' dried out. And if has I'll buy more. Money for glue doesn't come out of the same budget as money for toilet repair. You can't have too much glue.

I also looked for the missing rubber dowel, but can't even find the 2 boxes of unsorted small parts. I really must clean up.