Tenants will not allow access to make repair

[PipeDown]

Not the Agent, the Company. I agree but I did not make it up.

about half way down the page at the bullet "*Inquire carefully"

[Doug Kanter]

That's why I like my agent. I used the auto glass coverage once after 10 years with the same company, and they raised my rates 15%. We switched companies immediately, and I got a rate that was 5% lower than the original.

[PipeDown]

>

It's like jobs, if you want a big improvement, you have to switch.

[Greg O]

I realize you can not shut off the utilities just to piss off the tenant, but I think a water leak would be a good reason to. Greg

[Doug Kanter]

And then.....? Did you tell them you'd be stopping by? If YES, what did they say?

[SteveB]

CRIMINENTLY!

It works something like this.

YOU go by YOUR property. YOU notice a leak in the pipes. YOU attempt to rectify situation, but are barred by the tenant from doing so. YOU turn off the water because the tenant has denied YOU access to YOUR premises.

FAST FORWARD

Now ball is in tenant's court. They must go to authorities and make complaint that the property is uninhabitable. YOU have proof that YOU attempted to make repairs, but were barred illegally from YOUR own property.

It's your property, man. Start acting like it.

STeve

[Colbyt]

I have read this thread but not responded before now.

Your rights will vary from state to state and may vary based on what you have included in your written rental agreement (or lease).

My agreements provide for immediate access without any notice (legal in my state) for repairs or inspections of an emergency nature. Please note that the definition of the term "emergency" may vary from state to state. Without a doubt if I thought there was water flooding my basement that would constitute an emergency.

If the tenants are standing there barring your entry, as sad as it sounds, you have no legal recourse except through the courts. If they aren't at home and your agreement provides for emergency inspections or repairs you should be within your legal rights to enter the property.

Sounds like you have losers for tenants. Please let us know how it turns out.

Colbyt

[William.Deans]

a) When I call them they do not answer and do not call me back. b) I left a note saying that I was coming 24 hours in advance and when I got there they admitted to the leak but did not allow me in. They admitted to the leak to the police as well but they were no help.

[William.Deans]

Yes. My lease says that I have access with 24 hour notice.

Yes. They physically block my entrance. (I knocked, waited, knocked, waited -- then I opened the door a little and it was chained. They slammed it in my face.)

I went down to the district justice who isn't allowed to give legal advise but she said that they could not deny building code entrance no matter what and if I happen to be there at code's request??? I was not able to handle this before having to leave town. I am going to be out of town until Friday or Saturday but when I get back I will give the sheriff and/or code a call.

Thank you all -- I will tell you how it turns out -- and update you all as of Friday - Saturday. William

PS: I was advised NOT to turn off the water.

[Duane Bozarth]

Incorrect use of "jursidiction", sorry. They do have jurisdiction, what is common here and prompted the remark is that the Sherrif's Dept and local police departments have MOU's in place. Getting into that turf battle is not a pretty thing... :)

[John Willis]

On 18 Oct 2005 08:36:00 -0700, " [e-mail]" scribbled this interesting note:

Sounds to me as if you need to alter how your lease agreement is written. I'm certain that in your state there is an association of realtors of one sort or another. They are very good at making sure their lease agreements are very good. For the landlord. In Texas the Texas Association of Realtors has a committee that periodically reviews court cases and revises their lease agreement. It is currently

14 pages long. The previous agreement was only 8 pages.

Write a better lease agreement. You'll be happy you did...

-- John Willis [e-mail] (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

[SteveB]

Is this a troll? Please tell me this is a troll.

No one who has one functioning brain cell would allow tenants to push them around like this.

Can I come into my property and fix a leak that is damaging my house? Please?

This is a troll.

Right?

Steve

[maradcliff]

I was a landlord for many years. Standard residential leases require a landlord to give a 24 hour notice either in writing or by phone, for the landlord to enter the property. If the tenants are causing you problems, I'd suggest the written notice so you have proof. Simply post it on their door and have a witness with you when you post it. However, in the event of an emergency that threatens the home or property, the landlord can enter the premises at any time without giving notice. In other words, if this leak threatens to damage the property in any way, you can enter immediately, and use any method available to enter. I'd say that if it's a small drip, you should give the 24 hour notice, but if there is a stream of water coming from the pipes, that means that something in the building is likely being damaged, and/or the pipe is ready to break entirely and thus flood the place. In this case, it's an emergency and you can and should enter immediately. This is the LAW in most if not all states and written in standard leases. I do hope you have a legal lease with these tenants, but even of you do not, this is your right.

Aside from the law, I learned over the years one big lesson. Bad tenants are BAD TENANTS. Do not let them bully you around. You own the house, and you have a right to protect it. I had some bad tenants threaten to sue me if I entered the property, AFTER I served them with a legal evicion notice, and they refused to move on or before the date of notice. They called me and left several threatening messages on my answering machine, threats to do damage to the property, and threats to sue me if I entered. Well, those threats only served as my excuse to enter the property immediately, since that meant this was an emergency threat against the property. Of course I saved the answering machine messages on a tape in case I needed evidense for court. When I did attempt entry, the tenants threatened physical violence against me. Little did they know that I was carrying a portable cassette recorder under my shirt. That was all I needed to get the police there. They heard the recording and arrested the tenants for the threats.

In the end, tenants have few rights. I am not advocating abusing the rights of good tenants, and I was always courteous to good tenants and respected their rights and their privacy. However, tenants who are being evicted for non-payment or for any other valid reasons really have no rights. They will unlikely sue you, and not one of mine ever did. But, if they do, just be sure to record everything on paper and or tape, save phone messages, etc. Most of the time YOU will be suing them for non-payment or property damages, so the last thing they want to do is to get the police involved.

I suggest you do whatever it takes to enter that property to solve your leak. Follow the law as best you can, and if the tenants threaten violence, call the police when you or your plumber enter.

Mark

----------

[SteveB]

As has been stated and restated before, turning off the water to harass the tenants is one thing. Turning it off because there is a break in the pipe or an uncontrolled leak is another.

How in the world could an owner be held liable for stopping damage to his property especially when prevented from doing so by interfering tenants?

Yes, there is procedure and protocol to be followed. It seems like this landlord has devoted more time to discussing it on this newsgroup than actually going to the persons who know and regulate such things.

I can guarantee that if this had happened at my property rental, the case would be closed by now. Anyone barring me entrance would be trespassed immediately by a police officer, and required to vacate the premises. But, then, the laws regarding a daily, weekly, monthly rental, or rental for only a specific time period are different from a month to month open ended situation. So, I cannot really compare my rental with the OPs.

I just think that I would have taken a much more direct approach, and that I would have had the situation in hand a lot sooner. But then, my daughter and SIL are local POs, and I can always get things done a little faster than the average guy. Or at least get steered to the right person a lot faster.

However, my rental is a vacation rental, and the rental agreement allows me access 24/7. I don't deal with scum, and that seems to be the problem here.

Something smells of fish here.

Steve

[oren]

True, What's to stop me removing a master bed room window or even a front door. Wasn't long ago I advised my wife that I might go to jail. I was willing to go that far, it's our damn house! My tenant was even a law enforcement officer that refused inspection/entry with registered mail notice of the exact date and time. Since they owed money we had them served with a "five day pay or quit" and if they failed to pay the Judge was going to sign an immediate eviction. BTW, the Judge did explain to the tenant that the property was his to refuse entry the rightful owner.

Oren "My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."

[maradcliff]

EXACTLY !!!!

After reading more of this thread, I fully agree. If the police will not assist, you still have to protect you property both from the standpoint of the property itself, and for your insurance coverage. If the tenants will not let you enter, you have only one recourse. SHUT OFF THE WATER AT THE CURB. Not only will that protect the property from further damage, but will "encourage" the tenants to want to vacate the property, since they have no water. Be sure to document everything, including the badge number of the police officer, be sure to file a legal WRITTEN notice to the police, and if they will not allow you to use their paperwork, Hand them a typed letter in your own words, stating the issue. Then have the water company or a plumber shut off the water at the curb, so it's documented, and if possible get something in writing. I should also note that here is yet one more option. Get a few guys together and simply force your way into the place. The second the tenants lay a hand on you, you have a case of assault and or battery. Your buddies will serve as witness and possibly protection too. Once the tenant touches you, you are beyond the landlord tenant laws, and the police MUST file charges.

PS. If this is a rural property with a well, you must then disable the well pump. The best way to do this is to pull the electric meter.

I should note that I once had some tenants that sounded a lot like yours. I gave notices and did all the stuff allowed by law, and still was not getting anywhere. Legally, I could not disable the electric power, but I got angry enough that I simply pulled the meter and took it. Without power, the tenants were screwed. No power, no water (well water), and they moved real fast. Yes, this was not legal for me to do, but since the police would not assist, and the tenants were a threat to the property (just by being there after threatening me), I did what I had to do to protect the property, knowing that they were not going to sue me, and if they did, so be it...... I had mopre against them........ (Note - It was not winter so I did not physically threaten them from a lack of heat).

Mark

[maradcliff]

While this is true, do you know how long it takes the courts to get anything done? You cant wait that long. SHUT OFF THE WATER !!!

[oren]

Opps!

...the Judge did explain to the tenant that the property was NOT his to

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."

[maradcliff]

Shut off the water anyhow !!!!

[SteveB]

We live in a different world than our parents. Common sense and logic are now unusual traits.

Liberalism and post modernism are now the order of the day.

Each person now must create, maintain, and defend their own universe, as we can no longer depend on law, courts, or enforcement to be able to do the right thing, even when it is obvious.

And it is only going to get worse.

Steve