Sump Pump Without Perimeter Draining?

[emailwaste]

Hi.

I have a house built around 1979, I do not have the original plans for the house and cannot get them from my town. I do not know if I have perimeter drainage under the foundation.

I want to install a sump pump, but would it do any good if there is no perimeter drainage?

If I go around 2 feet deep lay some crushed stone and install the sump pump, would the water find it's way to the pump if it was installed in one corner of the house? Or do you absolutely need pipes to ensure the water all flows to the pump spot?

I was thinking of digging in a corner of the house to try and find out if perimeter draining is installed, but that could be futile. If I do find piping, there is no gaurantee that it will be in the right spot to trace out if it carries the water away from the house. However, there is one corner of the house where it would seem the most logical spot for it.

Also a question, generally speaking, do ALL houses have perimeter draining installed? Is that common practice? Was it common practice in

1979 as well?

Thanks in advance!

[Puddin' Man]

It can, yes.

Depends on the speed of precip., composition of ground under house, etc, etc.

All houses? I think not.

Not sure what they've done/not-done with perimeter drainage in newer house construction.

I've got a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in '54. Decided on a DIY sump pit/pump w/o drain tiles several years ago. Placed it near the back wall. Has worked fine, and we've had some serious precip. but no 3" in 1 day deluges.

I wouldn't dig a sump pit without understanding where -all- the under-floor facilities (i.e. drain pipes) are located. Recommend good, solid plastic sump basin from big-box or plumbers supply.

I have some recommended specs, etc.

Cheers, Puddin'

"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim." - Bertrand Russell

[hallerb]

over how wide of the basement is water coming in?

are you just trying to dry up a corner, or is water water everywhere.... and you want to finish the space?

[Just Joshin]

I don't have a sump, and don't need one. KOW. I had a friend put in one, and I asked about perimeter drains. He said the source of water in his basment wan't form the walls, but rising water table. So the sump below his basement floor allowed water to come up and then be pumped out. I guess if the walls was the problem, then perimeter drains are needed.

tom @

[emailwaste]

Are concrete foundations typically poured over crushed stone?

Yeah, I have no idea if I start cutting the floor whether I will be right over a pipe... Howver, if there is a pipe under there, it is a drainage pipe. If it is a drainage pipe it is not working anyway. So it may be worth the risk...

Anything you can provide would be very welcome.

[emailwaste]

This is my exact situation. When the water table rises it leeches in from all sides. This indicates a water table issue. Not a leak. Sounds like I could still benefit from installing a pump!

[emailwaste]

Trying to keep the whole basement dry, and I know that is a tall order. The corner I will install it in seems to be the wettest corner when it gets wet...

[Toller]

My old house was built in 1975 without a sump pump; which was bizarre since the house was built on fill next to a large creek. The basement flooded with every heavy rain, so the builder came back and put a sump pump in without drains or crushed stone, or anything else.

The system worked for 16 years until the creek overflowed during a power outage and filled the basement with 5' of water. Afterwards one corner of the basement would flood, so I had to install a second sump pump in that corner. The flood must have changed the drainage characteristics of the soil.

So, I would say that the crushed stone would be more than adequate; based on my limited experience. (a year after the flood I got the hell outa there...)

[Puddin' Man]

Not to my knowledge. They -might've- laid CS under the basement floor (only), but I doubt it.

Don't cut (yet).

Hmmmm. Not certain you understand. You need to stay away from drainage pipes for your sinks/tubs, etc when you cut. Usually tracable by observing placement of vent stacks.

You never know exactly what to expect when you go thru a basement floor. Inconsistencies in thickness, re-rod, construction garbage, etc are possible.

Consider very carefully before cutting:

1.) How much outside grading away from house (or other outside drainage) might help. 2.) Maximum rate of precip. expected in your area vs rate of seepage etc in basement. 3.) Composition of grade under house: how fast will water run thru it?

If you had hard-packed clay under house and installed sump in back, during a hard, fast rain, sump might get the water in back whilst water from front seeped onto floor. Etc, etc.

What, if anything, are your neighbors doing for drainage/sump systems?

Try:

but forget the 5-gallon bucket (get std. residential sump basin per previous post, then work up custom specs).

There is a helpful FAQ at:

Do your homework. Screwing up a sump pit can be an Extreme PITA.

P

"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim." - Bertrand Russell

[SteveC]

I did exactly that in my basement and it DID NOT work. I sunk a sump in one corner. I have ground water problems. Water still comes in from the other end of the basement. Last fall I had a full perimeter drain put in. I'm waiting to see how that works.

[Dan Espen]

I have a house of similar age. I don't believe it was common to put in perimeter drainage back then.

I started with a sump pump in one corner. In heavy rainfalls I would have water come up thru the middle of the floor. I was apparent that I needed the perimeter done.

I had the whole perimeter done with no problems since.

If you want to do one corner, and see if that helps, I don't think that would be a big problem. You should be able to add more drain lines to the hole later on. Get a liner with knockouts.

[buffalobill]

all houses are different depending on climate, soil, and budget of the builder. you could simply hire your local plumber after checking with your immediate neighbors in similar homes. if the water is from rain, there are do's and don'ts for where your town wants the water to go. if there is underground seepage in spring that can be sump pumped into a storm drain or sewer if permitted. for homework, browse thru this site and see different climate designs and lots of basement stuff too.