Snaking too often

[Higgs Boson]

I usually don't have to call a plumber to snake the kitchen drain more than every 3-4 years. I am very prudent about grease, etc.; always wipe it int o the garbage before washing dishes or running dishwasher. Also put food w aste into compost jar. Run disposal very seldom.

OK, had sink snaked in February. All clear.

7/17/13 had major work done on stopped-up bathroom sink. Plumber had to mak e cut-out in wall behind sink to locate culprit; so rotted the threads were gone could barely hook up to trap; had to be replaced. They went under th e house to finish removing ancient cast-iron pipe (yeccch! you should see!! !)) and replace with plastic. Said they didn't see seepage from old pipe t hat it connects to, toward sewer pipe, so no need thank heaven to make big bill any bigger.

7/19/13, kitchen sink backed up AGAIN!!! Now maybe I'm paranoid, but for t his to happen TWO fracking days after the bathroom sink operation...

Tried plunger & heavy-duty crystals repeatedly. Nada. Backup seeps out sl owwwwwwwly. Strangely, I can use dishwasher; load at night; by morning it' s done and water has seeped out. But this can't go on!!

I'm thinking, did something the bathroom sink guys left stuck in the transv erse pipe that goes under the house from the kitchen to the ?? juncture wit h waste pipe leading to sewer -- where bathroom pipe also joins? Why woul d a free-flowing kitchen sink "coincidentally" ??? stop up 2 days after sna king? I don't know whom to blame. Should I call the snake specialist again? Or should I call the bathroom sink guys? They'll probably charge for a call, and I know they'll charge big-time if they have to go under again.

Sorry this is so long. I only have naive langugage to describe dilemma.

Any thoughts?

HB

[RobertMacy]

You might have a very 'weak' iron section that SHOULD be looked at.

However, in the interim you might take some action. After living 20+ years in our home, the bathroom sink drain became plugged again and again, way too often. Snaking only worked temporarily, so I bought those inflateable hose 'bubbles' that swell to fill the vent pipes, one for each diameter. From the roof drop the hose/bubble down the vent pipe to below the trap, turn on water while monitoring EVERY place in the house for 'back-blow', and literally the hose and pressure remove every bit of 'substance' so you don't have to snake again for years and years. Went around to EVERY vent repeating and was surprised to find so many other drains had turned 'marginal'. However, later the whole MAIN drain to the street became clogged, so we brought in the professional to do from the house to the street. He found no obstruction after running his snake completely to the street, but the drain was STIll clogged. He said that we had developed a 'gel' like substance inside the sewer pipes that his professional snake could NOT get rid of. The snake went through, came back out with the gel closing in behind, and the line was STILL plugged! It took a jet engine like thingy on a trailer taking over an hour to blow out the plugged section. Once done ALL the drains in the house NEVER clogged again for many years, at least over 6 years I knew of.

[Higgs Boson]

Thanks. That's a challenging operation. I gather I'd have to partner with someone to monitor "every place for backblow"? Never heard of this; does it mean racing around or can be done gradually?

Has anyone else heard of the reported "gel-like" substance? Any input?

Still looking for thoughts about whether the bathroom/underhouse work could have somehow plugged up the kitchen drain. I never thought to ask the snake guy how far it went in. Would this have a bearing?

TIA

HB

[RobertMacy]

It took two of us in a two story 15 room home.

I saw the gel, looked like the gel surrounding a ham in the can.

Did one at a time, went fast! But the 4 inch diameter balloon COST $$$!!! Even though these went into discusting places, I saved for another use, let dry in the sun, and keep isolated.

[21blackswan]

it may not be how Far the snake goes/cleans, but how big a hole the snake makes, allowing for flow

we advise in this instance, doing a manual pulling apart the pipes, and cleaning them out

even with a snake, the hole can become more and more restricted, and snaking just makes a smallish space in the pipes for flow

you need to pull them apart once every 10-20 years, to see what i'm talking about

marc

[Higgs Boson]

OMG!!! That's serious! ***Is that usually a very expensive job? ****

The pipe from the kitchen runs transversely/diagonally/ under the house to where it must join the pipe to the sewer -- where I assume the bathroom si nk also meets. Could the bathroom sink job have somehow blocked up the pi pe from the kitchen?

OR -- the bathroom sink is now flowing clear, so can I infer that the block age is BEFORE the juncture? Like is saying above - restricted flow ?

I appreciate the NGs patience in working through this. Here's a time-line:

1. February. Snake kitchen sink. Assume usual every 3-4 years.

1. July 17. Snaked kitchen again! Alarmed at short interval.

2. July 19. Bathroom sink stopped up. Plumber made cut-out in wall to r each ancient pipe full of yecch; threads too rotted to attack plastic. Plu mber wet under house to cut & remove old pipe and put in plastic. Plumber reported observing no leak from pipe to sewer so assumed OK.

1. FEW DAYS LATER, kitchen sink blocked again!!!! This time I removed nut and rigged some rain gutters to carry flow into driveway. With minimal use I've been getting away with it for several weeks, worrying myself sick abo ut next step.

Thanks, everybody; all input appreciated.

HB

[dennisgauge]

You need to know how things are arranged before you can start jumping to conclusions.

If the bathroom sink is on the transverse pipe from the kitchen to the sewer, it could easily block the pipe from the kitchen.

If each sink has its own dedicated pipe to the sewer, then no.

[Higgs Boson]

Gue$$I've have to call the plumber -- not the snake man -- to map the pipe$.

One more q: Is it that much cheaper to pull & clean the pipes than it would be to simply put in new pipes? Also, is cleaning (by what means?) effective enough to give me the 10-20 years that projected?

TIA

HB

[21blackswan]

personally, I would simply pull apart the pipes [yourself] under the sink that's giving you problems, and see what they look like inside.

If you see obvious blockage there, clean it out, and that may be all you have to do - for xx years

marc

[Higgs Boson]

I wish! It's NOT the pipes under the sink. I had them replaced months ago.

It's a blockage probably in the pipes going under the house to meet the line to sewer. That's why I asked **whether it's much more to just replace the pipes rather than to pull and clean them.** Anybody?

When the kitchen sink clog first hit (a few days after bathroom sink major work) I let water drain out of kitchen sink slowwwwly over night. Disgusdting, but proves, I guess, that blockage is "only" 99-44/100!!!

Then I unscrewed the outside nut, and let sink water drain into a series of rain gutters to the driveway. Of course this can't go on. I just have to get up my nerve to call plumber.

HB

[dennisgauge]

There is no such thing as "pull and clean." No professional would do it that way.

Either they replace the pipes or snake them in place. Since snaking isn't fixing the problem then they will be replaced.

[21blackswan]

e:

house to where it must join the pipe to the sewer -- where I assume the b athroom sink also meets. Could the bathroom sink job have somehow blocked up the pipe from the kitchen?

ng to conclusions.

the sewer, it could easily block the pipe from the kitchen.

t would be to simply put in new pipes? Also, is cleaning (by what means?) effective enough to give me the 10-20 years that projected?

ine to sewer. That's why I asked **whether it's much more to just replace the pipes rather than to pull and clean them.** Anybody?

r work) I let water drain out of kitchen sink slowwwwly over night. Disgus dting, but proves, I guess, that blockage is "only" 99-44/100!!!

of rain gutters to the driveway. Of course this can't go on. I just have to get up my nerve to call plumber.

nevermind then; i only speed read online posts

it sounds reasonable to try snaking your pipes, first

isn't there a company [in LA] that has a flat fee for snaking?

marc

[bob haller]

snake with camera inspection. after yearly clogs had it snaked and camera nspection. i have a video tape somewhere around here.....

every joint but one of the clay tile had tree roots....

so i started salting the drain water a few times a year and that took care of the roots.

rocksalt is cheap and effective......

i didnt have the bucks to replace the line.... so this is a excellent interim solution thats worked for me for around 15 years

[Higgs Boson]

:

ote:

he house to where it must join the pipe to the sewer -- where I assume the bathroom sink also meets. Could the bathroom sink job have somehow block ed up the pipe from the kitchen?

ping to conclusions.

o the sewer, it could easily block the pipe from the kitchen.

it would be to simply put in new pipes? Also, is cleaning (by what means? ) effective enough to give me the 10-20 years that projected?

line to sewer. That's why I asked **whether it's much more to just replac e the pipes rather than to pull and clean them.** Anybody?

jor work) I let water drain out of kitchen sink slowwwwly over night. Disg usdting, but proves, I guess, that blockage is "only" 99-44/100!!!

s of rain gutters to the driveway. Of course this can't go on. I just hav e to get up my nerve to call plumber.

That way you miss a olot, bro'

Since you "speed-read" earlier posts, you probably missed that I had them s naked 2x.

Yes, and I used them 2x

Respectful suggestion: If you're going to be on the NG, read more carefull y so posters don't have to repeat.

HB

[Higgs Boson]

I went through that years ago in the back yard! Trying to remember if they replaced the clay tile with more clay, or with cast iron. That was before plastic got so big. Where are my records????

But this is a different situation. The clog must be somewhere in the (ISTR) copper pipes I had put in decades ago UNDER THE HOUSE where one wouldn't expect roots.

didnt have the bucks to replace the line.... so this is a excellent interim solution thats worked for me for around 15 years

Nor I, nor I! The (separate) job on the bathroom sink & under house pretty much wrecked my budget!

Re: rock salt, maybe I should start doing that again *in the back yard*. Should I introduce the solution through the cleanout?

Is there a downside to rock salt? Anybody?

HB

[Bill Ghrist]

I can tell you from personal experience that you can get roots in the drains under a house.

[bob haller]

I put a toilet in my basement, breakng the floor was easy.......

but geez the ground under the house was jammed with tree roots.....

i cut some with a chain saw, most with lopping shears

rock salt is probably bad for septic tanks and overuse might effect cast iron and steel pipe......

rock salt doesnt bother clay or plastic pipe

[bob haller]

have the line snaked again and send down a camera for a video inspection of whats up

[Moe DeLoughan]

If they're giving you that kind of persistent problem, the long-term solution is to replace them. If snaking is no longer proving effective, there's a problem somewhere in there that is best addressed by eliminating it entirely. Labor is the greatest expense here. Depending on how old the pipes are and how the drain line runs (that is, how accessible it is) a plumber may propose locating the blockage, then pulling and replacing only that section of pipe. But there's a good chance that he'll tell you it should all be replaced. Depending on how accessible it is, it could range from an afternoon's work for a few hundred bucks, or several day's work for more than one guy, running into the thousands.

Good luck. A dozen years ago I began getting puddles of smelly water on my basement floor. I suspected the kitchen drain, so I dumped a bottle of tracer dye down the drain, which confirmed it. Unfortunately, the kitchen sink is on the opposite end of the house from the sewer line. Worse, it is under the extremely thick concrete basement floor. Worse still, it ran under the stairs on the way to the sewer line. Since that meant that part was inaccessible, the plumbers ended up cutting a trench in the floor running the length of the basement and replacing the entire drain pipe run from sink to sewer line. The better part of a week's work, and several thousand dollars cost, mostly in labor.

You know you're screwed when a plumber says, "I feel sorry for you."

[Higgs Boson]

Hey, thanks for that comprehensive rundown of possibilities!

Sorry about your litany of horrors! With a basement floor like that, you must live in a climate with temperature extremes.

For me, the good (maybe) is that mine is a So.Calif house, basically a box up on blocks, with an accessible (dusty, spider-ridden) crawl space.

The bad is that, like yours, the kitchen is far from the sewer line.

Yeah...well, time to quit fracking around and call the ************plumber. Sigh.

HB