Hello all -
I need a small-sized fireproof AND waterproof storage box,
to store some items in the basement of my house.
The items stored will not necessarily be "valuable" in a
dollar-wise sense, but rather things I want to protect from
a home disaster, such as a fire. Pehaps a few "bare" hard
drives, some important papers, etc.
If one goes to an office supply store like Staples, they
carry such a chest by Sentry (#H4100). BUT -- this item gets
some bad reviews for a hinge that is only plastic and breaks
off, plus mildew inside.
I've seen another (similarly-priced and sized) by First
Alert, and the user reviews on that also indicate mold
forming on documents placed inside over time.
I'm wondering if mold becomes a problem in all
"hermetically-sealed" type storage boxes? Probably stands to
reason. Can this be prevented with silica gel kept inside
the container, as well?
Has anyone else bought/used a similar storage container? It
doesn't have to be large (small enough to be "carry-able",
at least into the basement), but the whole pupose (above and
beyond a basic "safe") is that it withstand a house fire,
and the subsequent water poured in by the fire department to
quell the house fire.
Another thought -- for those who keep a fire-resistant safe
(but NOT waterproof), how do you handle documents/items
inside? Will keeping the items in waterproof bags _inside_
the safe work?
There are some items that you do not want to store in a safe deposit box at
A will is one of them. At the time of death, the box becomes sealed for a
while and you have to have an officer of the court with the person opening
it and an inverntory is then made.
When my dad died, all that was in his box was a lot of old coins. The court
officer thought she was going to be there hours counting them. She decided
to just call it 'one coin collection' and we took care of it in a few
Scan any important documments and keep them on you with a USB drive and
another one at someones house in a sealed envelope.
If you are worried about mildue, you can do what the gun safes do. There
are smaller electric heaters that only run about 5 to 20 watts that go
inside the safe to keep it dried out inside.
They do or atleast did 10 years ago in North Carolina. I had one with my
dad and the lawyer told me when we got it, it would stop at his death.
Many things are locked up/frozen or whatever at death. If you and someone
close have money together in a bank or stock or whatever, make sure you have
a clause in it that includes right of survivorship. That way at death
everything goes to you. There may be some laws that state you have to clear
all the bills before you get the money free and clear. It also can
eliminate some estate taxes as that money is not put on the offical books.
Lots of fine points of the law than most working people do not know about.
The rich have lawyers and such to make sure they keep most of the money.
I only know of a few.
That's usually what happens but before the bank finds out that the old
man croaked. Lawyers will say, "I didn't tell you this, but get down
there before the death notice...". Even in the case of a jointly held
box, it has to be inventoried. Nothing says that everything in the
box is jointly owned. The tax man also wants to get paid. Another
reason that everything should be in joint survivorship.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 21:53:55 -0400, "David L. Martel"
No but it's true. By no good, I mean if the payee presents it at
the bank knowing the payer is dead, he's violated some regulation and
proabably a law, and if the bank pays it knowing the payer is dead, it
has violated a regulation, probably a law, and effectively has stolen
from the estate of the dead person.
Even if the bank pays when neither the bank nor the payee knows the
payer is dead, the money can be seized and returned to the estate.
The uncashed check IS evidence of a debt, and it should be presented
to the deceased's estate, to be paid along with its other debts. I
don't know what the priority is for checks, but regardless, there may
not be enough money in the estate to pay the check in full, even if
there was enough in the checking account to fully pay it when it was
Either provide a legal cite, statute or banking regulation or take this
theory and put it where it belongs... in the toilet.
"Some regulation", "probably a law"? With such specificity you
undoubtedly have a firm grasp of... nothing.
With a non-post dated check, payment has been tendered to the creditor
or payee on the date the check was drawn. It's no different than if the
decedent had paid $300 to Home Depot and then keeled over and died in
the parking lot as he loaded his purchase in the car. Now, if the check
had been written AFTER he died...
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 09:41:58 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
LOL Why should I face a choice like that? I know I'm right, even if
you don't. I've got better things to do than search the web for
citations. You ask your own lawyer.
I've done you a favor by telling you what the law is.
An insult, huh! I know 100 times more about it than you do. Why
should I bother keeping track of which law it is, when I know it's
illegal to present a check made by a person who is now dead?
Do you know the statutes against speeding or stealing? No, and unless
you might be about to violate one of them, or already have, you don't
need to know,. It's enough to know that they're illegal.
A tender is not the same as a payment. A payment by check is not
complete, is not made until the check is cashed,
Tendering payment doesn't even mean that the tender was accepted, just
that it was offered, so that also means you are using the wrong word.
For example, a tenant whose lease is expiring tomorrow can tender
another month's payment. If the landlord accepts it, the tenant,
barring other complications, has the right to use the property for
another month. But if the landlord declines the tender, the tender
had no effect.
$300 cash? A check is entirely different from cash. When one pays
cash, the payment has been made. There is no outstanding debt.
A $300 check? That is the same as any other check. ....
....If it isn't cashed before the payer dies, the check may not be
legally negotiated. It should be returned to HD by the bank and HD
should present it to the executor of the estate.
For clarity, *if* a check is written October 14th and the guy dies Oct
15th; it is illegal to deposit the check in your account on the 16th for
the bank to process?
What if goods changed hands? What if this is for a service to be delivered
in the future? Does the legality require 'knowledge' of the death? For
example, Unknown to you the guy died, why not deposit the check with
impunity, or is that culpability? Or, his death is known to you and you
quickly deposit the check?
Wow! a lot of if's here. Seems like it's the responsibility of the banking
industry to 'freeze' the deceased's account, return the check, and then
require you to present it to the Executor. All without punishment to you
looming over your head.
From a comment by one of my vendors in CA, He said please do NOT post date
your check, if anything happens to you I have no recourse in trying to
collect a check dated AFTER your death, instead write it today and I give
you my word I will not deposit it until the post date [when given time to
liquidate and move required funds into checking account]. But, then I know
that treads into territory of writing a check on an account WITHOUT
sufficient funds in that account, which, to my understanding, is illegal.
Just NO WAY around trying to do business between two people the way the
state gets involved.
Maybe a 'promisory' note to pay on such-and-such date, eh?
If the depositer knows the guy is dead, it's either a violation of a
law, a regulation, or both. They might have shown mercy and not made
it a violation of law, but I sort of doubt it.
Too bad, so sad. For the vendor. That's one reason organized
vendors take their checks to the bank for deposit the same day they
get them, not two days later like in your example. That's why they
have night depositories (or used to?)
Of course most people I know have money to pay all their debts, even
after they're dead. So he gets his money late, but he still gets it.
Maybe he could go and take back the merchandise he sold, even though
maybe t hat's illegal. But a big place like HD would be crazy to do
this without checking the legalit y.
I used to fix tv's etc. for a hobby, and I put up flyers at the
college near me, and people in my 49-apt. building knew aobut me.
One guy brought me his cheap (but it still worked when it worked)
receiver-stereo, and said he'd like to get back by Saturday. I said
"Having a party?" No, I just want it back. (No one else ever gave me
even a hoped for time limit.) I actually had it working by then and I
gave it back to him, even though he didnt' have the money. (It was 15
or 20 dollars, not much, even then) I would have had a mechanics lien
on the thing if I had kept it, and I didnt realize at the time that by
giving it to him, I gave up my lien and couldn't get it back, unless
he requested more work on it.
But I was angry after another week went by with no money, so I waited
until he wasn't home and knocked on the door and told his girlfriend I
was going to tix the other thing that was wrong with it (He had
mentioned that there was, but it worked for me.) After a couple
minutes I told her I had to take it to my apartment, and I did. I was
reckless in those days.
My roommate and I waited all evening for him to come demanding his
item. My roommate seemed to want to have a fight, even though he was
sort of skinny. He never showed up, but a day or two later, the
girlfriend saw me on the sidewalk and wanted to know why I had taken
the item. It turns out, she said, he beat her up instead of beating
me up. She called the police. If I had foreseen her getting hurt, I
wouldn't have taken the thing back. That never occurred to me. He
never came for his stereo until 3 or 4 years later. I met him in the
lobby and like a fool, again, said too much, told him that I'd sold it
to get the money he owed me. Then he said he wanted to get it back,
and I realized I shouldn't have said what I did, so I changed the
story entirely and said I still had it. Did he have the money? No he
didn't. So I said no, and he didnt' threaten me, left on his own,
and never came back. But this is the kind of trouble one get\s into
when he (me) doesn't follow the rules.
Not if you don't know he died.
Some people would do that, and they may very well get away with it.
Even if the bank is notified quickly of the death (of everyeone who
died the previous day in the area, only a couple of whom will have
accounts at any one bank.) there is bound to be a period of time when
the guy is dead and the bank hasn't been told. (Maybe with computers
this time is shortened, but there are still people who die thousands
of miles away from home, etc.)
I said before that there is a violation of law or regulation by the
payee if he knew the payer on the check was dead, and by the bank if
it knew the payer was dead.
Not otherwise. But even if neither knew, the estate has the right to
reclaim the money paid out. It's not going to do this for $10,
especially if the money went to someone who the estate owed $10 to,
but there are times when this all matters a lot.
(As an aside, there used to be a scam where people read the obituary
page and sent very expensive looking Bibles to the dead person, along
with a statement of money owed, and a letter that made it seem like
the dead person had ordered the Bible before he died. And of course
they wanted 3 times, 10 times?, what even a fancy looking Bible cost.
Who's going to refuse to pay for a BIBLE! when they think their loved
one ordered it. )
Especially for a service in the future. Now that the guy is dead,
maybe no one wants this service anymore. Anyhow, any contract he
That's why there is a separate course called Negotiable Instruments,
and why a lawyer should review all the details before giving advice in
a particular situation. And why dummies shouldn't be lawyers. And
why lawyers make mistakes.
What they ought to do is teach a high school course in "Law you should
know for successful living" that would teach people that checks are
void after the payer dies; that most deposits are not refundable: that
most contracts can't be cancelled within 3 days, can't be cancelled at
all; the rules for trees or limbs falling on the neighbor's property,
that if the girl is drunk or unconscious, sex with her is rape".
A lot of these things, I get the impression a lot of 18 year olds
know, but I don't know where they learn them. Right now 3 midshipman
at Annapolis are charged with raping a female midshipman who was iirc
said to have been drunk. I used to have a list of about 20 topics
they should cover, but I've forgotten most of my list. Maybe 10
minutes in class per item would be enough to cover most of them, and
of course there could be a textbook too.
I think they did have a course called Commercial Law in my high school
but it wasn't required, not many people took it, and I think it dealt
with commerce, for people who have a business, and not what people
need to know in everyday life,
That would look bad. IANALawyer and this is pretty fact-specific,
but I'm not positive he would never have recourse. First I think if
it the new owner or manager believed you really had signed the check,
I think he could pay. But could the vendor force him to pay. Well,
If your assistant or someone believable heard a conversation where you
said, I have to post date this check because I haven't got enough in
my account now, and maybe it woudl help if the vendor had delivered
the goods already and your business had resold the goods already. Or
if it could be shown that this was a common practice of yours, post
BTW, you are writing personal checks to a vendor? This isn't for
your business then, right? "Vendor" at first made me think it was
commercial. If it were a business check, even for a minimal
corporation, that continues to exist after the president dies, so the
check is still good. I should have said personal check before, but
we were talking about individuals, I guess, so I didn't think to say
If the state didn't get involved there would be even more problems.
BTW, a person who writes a post-dated check can't be charged later
with knowingly writing a check with insufficient funds. Because, I
think as a matter of law, there is no way to show that he didn't think
there would be enough money in the account by the date on the check.
Even when no one dies. So if someone accepts a post-dated check,
he's foregone one of the incentives to make the guy pay, after it
bounces. The payer can't be threatened with "writing a check on
Signed by a person, not for a corporation? Might have all the same
issues, but I can see again that I would find it tedious to be a
lawyer. Some of them seem to really like it.
Wow, excellent replies and details, thank you.
I wrote an excellent reply [well, at least to me] with many additional
anecdotes only to find when I hit SEND, my server AIOE, decided I had too
many quoted lines and erased everything!
To the above..YES! Instead of making a school a glorified 'daycare center'
why don't they use those tax dollars to educate US citizens on the basics
of living in the US? like how to write a checkbook, or balance a
checkbook, fill out tax forms, basic contractual laws for vendors and
services?WhencourtrommTV first started seemed like a chance to do that,
but alas, turned into 'entertainment' making fun of people instead and
lost a great opportunity. Before the transition I learned one principle
didn't know aobut and didn't even believe, but is true. A buyer bought a
stereo system from a friend for $2,000 to pay when he picked it up. He was
supposed to come by Wed night and get the system but deferred until the
next day for convenience, during the night a fire destroyed EVERYTHING in
the seller's home, including the stereo that was NOT picked up. Held up in
court of law, the buyer was liable for that $2,000 to pay for now
nonexistent stereo, BECAUSE the seller was NOT a commercial vendor, made
the system available as agreed, and only stored the system that now
belonged to the buyer, but unfortunately lost it through a fire. So, the
buyer still had to cough up the 2k!
personal check to vendor? I only called him a vendor, actuallly was a
friend and my wife's jewellry broker, excellent dude, now sadly deceased.
He knew her tastes and would 'look' for pieces just for her. Check was for
a bracelet as a gift for her, around $14k back in the 80's when a dollar
was worth almost a dollar so required moving money around, but he wanted
me to take it with me to give to her for her birthday. thus, the postdated
I have little respect for lawyers until I met three I respected. 1. the
guy in the Guinness book [well for awhile] for the largest malpractise
claim ever awarded. I asked him what happened, he turned pale as he said
"You don't want to know." and he didn't tell me. 2. a 200 pound 6' 1"
complete belligerent a**hole, bastard irritating beyond belief, but
COMPLETELY unafraid of anything, one you WANT in your corner. [He appeared
on the Geraldo Show representing a young widow in a high profile case] and
3. the BEST attorney in his expertise, to the extent that in unrelated
company I would be talking about the subject, mention his name, someone
would say, "Yeah, <<name deleted>> is AWSEOME!" followed by a moment of
silence in the conversation. Seriously, like being in a church.
<<My uncle wrote checks to be used by his wife after his death. Can these
checks be negotiated now?
Legally, no. Once your uncle's bank learns that he has died, it can pay
checks dated before the date of death, but only for ten days after the date
of death. That's so that checks actually signed and delivered on or before
the date of death have a reasonable time to clear, but the funds in your
uncle's account now belong to his estate or any joint owner of the account,
and those checks he signed before he died aren't valid any longer. >>
If you have a joint account with the right of survivalship, you do not need
to shift the money. It will automatically go to you and most likely not be
in the estate taxes at all. I think half, but not sure, of the money can
still be used by the estate to pay any bills that may come to the estate,
even if the money is all yours.
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