250.53(A): "Where practicable, rod, pipe, and plate electrodes shall be embedded below permanent moisture level."
Note the word "minimum". Clearly, if the depth of permanent moisture is at, say, 10 feet, and it is "practicable" to drive a rod to that depth, 250.53(A)
*requires* doing so.Went back to the summer camp. Just simply can't get the shower to shock. Yes, took off a shoe and sock, and put the wet foot on the metal drain. Tried everything we could think of, and can't get the shower to shock.
Turned on lights. Turn on furnace. Try a different shower.
Traced some wires. The ground is NOT tied to the neutrals. The ground wire goes to a stake in the ground. The neutral goes back to wherever neutrals go.
They are going to call in an electrician. In the meantime, we unhooked the furnace in case that's the source of power. I suspect a bad neutral. When they have a lot of lights, etc, going in the cabins, the neutral might be higher than ground potential. How that's getting into the shower pipes is still unclear.
I'll keep you posted.
I misread your original post as 8' or moisture whichever is less. What you wrote, whichever is greater, is right and is a good practice.
I doubt you usually know the depth to permanent soil moisture, which makes the article a little hard to enforce. And I doubt it is enforced. Fortunately the move is, in general, to Ufer/concrete encased electrodes, which are far better electrodes.
Anyone been required to use a ground rod more than 8' in the earth?
-- bud--
Another possibility is 'mass hysteria'. One person thinks they feel a shock and others, who then have an expectation, can 'feel' one.
Thanks. It will be interesting.
-- bud--
True, and except for the fact he actually was able to measure a potential difference and (iirc) feel it himself initially, I'd think it a higher probability...
But, again, since it's a public facility, caution is the word of the day...
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Well I am no electrician but I know a few and am an electrical engineer. The neutral seperation from the ground does not sound right to me. The ground and neutral should be at the same potential except when there is current flowing through the neutral. The fact that they are disconnected seems wrong.
Of course I guess proper terms are in order. when you say 'ground' what do you mean? The wire connected to the 3rd prong in outlets and whatnot? That is the onlything I think you can call a ground. that should go back to the panel and tie into the neutral, then from there they both should hit a stake in the ground together. So they will always be at same potential. IIRC.
With that current layout, if that stake in the ground becomes a better return than the proper neutral for whatever reason, you will be shocking people. This can change based on earth conditions and maybe even neutral loading.
Im not electrician but it does not seem proper.
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