Obviously you don't have much experience with chopped up roof systems. And
OR you're using pieces under 6", which is a no no. I've seen waste as high
as 15% on a 3 tab, the dimensionals won't have as much waste.
This is a joke, right? Restocking 5-10% max., say on a $50 a square return
the most it will cost is $5.00. The only way this is possible to run and
pick up materials cheaper is, you don't pay your help nothing or your time
isn't worth much to run and pick-up materials. $5 bucks won't pay for help
and fuel let alone cost of vehicle and insurances rolled into it. This has
to be one of the most ridiculous ways of "saving" money I've ever heard of.
Each their own, but you won't get away with that mind set working for
Around here, paying by the square means subcontracting the job. If you're
subbing the job or your help is doing that to you, I suggest new management,
there's no other solution.
Where we operate most houses are a traditional ranch style home with
either hip or gable roofs-about half and half. Newer houses around
here have adopted a style more common in the northeast with very steep
roofs and usually quite cut up. Both of these features make no sense
around here since there is no snow load and the more planes and
penetrations in a roof the higher the likelihood of leaks and other
problems. Plus that much taller roof profile makes for an attic with
far more volume to be ventilated.
Most suppliers around here charge a minimum 20% restocking fee. On a
house of some size this can run into about $100-more or less depending
on the size of the house, and taking into assumption that 20% waste
that is unnecessary and will have to be returned in this scenario.
We do not pay by the square, ever, because of this problem. We do one
job at a time and have for just about thirty years. We manage every
installation personally. We do not subcontract out for general
Seems like you have your ideas on how to manage your business and we
have ours. Both will work, both can be right. Efficiency for you
obviously means something different than it means for us, but as long
as the job gets done well, on time, and for the specified payment,
then all is good.
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
I don't know where you get your #'s from. It was _you_ that was bragging
about being so close you _only_ came up one bundle shy on the job. I have
no doubt you _think_ that was excellent, and never figured how much extra it
cost to get that $12 bundle between actual time and direct costs. Being
conservative if you pay your help a modest $15 per hour, plus with actual
costs, the figure is probably closer to $50 to get that extra bundle.
No one said to add 20% to all jobs except you. You yourself laid out all
considerations for waste factor, after you said "Not True" when I said
"Waste is factored into the style of roof. "
Now, even at 20% restocking charge, in order to hit $100 +/-, you have to
return $500 worth of supplies. On the high side of $50 per square, you would
be returning 10 square. Now to hit 10 square, a 100 square job @ 10% waste
would be there, this is with 0% waste. I really haven't seen maybe 3 homes
being 100 square residential here locally, and seriously doubt this is the
norm in your area. Most residential homes we have been involved with are in
the 30 square range. 10% waste factor would be 3 square, this would be a
cut up roofline. Leaving 2 bundles on site, brings the waste down to 2-1/3
square. Now using your 4% waste (remember this is a cut up roofline, hardly
possible only 4%) comes out to 1.2 square. You would have one square extra
to return. Being $50 per square, 20% restock charge would cost you $10, far
cry from $100 =/- . Being a cut up roofline, in reality you would use over
Now you tell me, which is more efficient?
If you're going to throw figures around, at least be halfway sensible about
In Mass. Applies to standard fiberglass shingles of any flavor. Roofers
working for contractors on new construction getting $40-$50 per square,
labor, to start. Working for homeowners (I heard) getting $75 to $90. Price
varies by "extras" re: skylights $75 ea, dormers $150 ea, center chimney, 2
or more long cheeks, etc, etc. Tear off is double the install rate,
typically. Materials you gotta figure, too many variables to go by sq ft
today. My standard speced roof is about $100 per sq for materials.
Why the difference between builders and homeowners? Builders shoulder the
warranty, preparation, tie-in, and follow the unwritten rules of the trades.
Homeowners are demanding and much less forgiving of cosmetic errors. A
homeowner will call a roofer back to remove a few stray nails left on the
To give a little more info on the MA roofing trade where we operated
(central). We were seeing roofers working new construction smacking down
shingles for as low as 30$ a square especially for architectural. In our
area many roofers would actually cut their labor slightly to get the
customer to go with architectural over three tab due to the speed of
installation. They would tell the customer they will give them
architecturals for the same price as three tab basically. I think three
tabs are going to go the way of the wind before long as the prices are
close enough where the added labor of the three tabs is easily overcome
by the speed of architecturals. I would make a $15 per square adjustment
in trade for speed in a second but I can see where there would still be
jobs where that's make or break.
The rule of thumb for us (very rough gauge) was always 150/square for
re-roof or new and 250/square to strip. That price however was no longer
competitive given the guys working at 30$/square. We actually liked not
being competitive as we hated roofing and its hard to make any money at
it when roofers our gouging each others eyes out for the work.
As an actual gauge, just before we left MA 2 years ago, our neighbor
asked us to put a roof on their house and we told them they could easily
get it cheaper from a roofer we knew. They had a two story colonial,
breezeway, 2 car garage. All walkable and all separate roofs but
connected, no valley's. If I recall correctly the roof was 20-22 square.
They stripped and installed the roof with architecturals in three days
and the price was just under 5K (I want to say like 4900.00 or
something). This falls in the 220/square range. They had to pay an extra
250-300 or so if I recall to have a mason come in an point up the
chimney flashing and some other things the roofers spotted.
In our new location (WV) this would be a bit less, perhaps 100 for
new/reroof and 200 to strip I would guess. Labor here is a bit less but
building materials are more although roofing materials are pretty
comparable in price.
Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
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