? Call the home inspector. Do you know anybody? Two names.
Direct conflict of interests. Makes everything he told you suspect.
Best of luck, and let us know how it comes out!
? Call the home inspector. Do you know anybody? Two names.
Direct conflict of interests. Makes everything he told you suspect.
Best of luck, and let us know how it comes out!
Those are normal bids, within an expected range. You throw out the high bid (too busy, don't need the work) and the low bid (pays employees under the table, doesn't pay taxes, forged insurance docs) and choose from the middle three. Look for a manufacturer's installers certification as the deal clincher. Doesn't mean much, but a roofer who goes through the effort is at least trying to be professional.
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:23:31 GMT, "Mick" scribbled this interesting note:
The waste factors we use vary slightly according to roof type, yes. But it varies within a very tight range-from three percent to five percent above the actual roof measurements. Never in my experience have I ever seen a residential roof in our area that couldn't be measured and estimated with this kind of waste factor. I still stand by my assertion that anyone who estimates a roof with a ten to twenty percent waste factor is a thief, or worse is very inexperienced.
It can be when it is constant and on every job, but every supplier I know of also charges some kind of re-stocking fee on returned materials. Over time that fee will add up to some significant expenses. Compare that expense to the slight cost of having to occasionally return to the supplier or warehouse to obtain a few extras (something that can be done when going to order for the next job or in the evening after work for the day is done) and to us this is a more efficient way to operate. We are usually about a square or less over what it actually takes to install the roof.
If you overestimate a roof and the hired help is paid by the square you have increased your operating expenses by a rather significant margin since the hired help will quickly understand that if they can use up as much material as possible (by cutting off a six inch piece from a whole shingle and throwing away all the 'waste', which is not significant if done once, but over an entire roof, on every roof installed, turns into quite a pile of cash) they will make far more money.
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
That MUST have been Lyle Harwood no? ;)
Mark
Obviously you don't have much experience with chopped up roof systems. And OR you're using pieces under 6", which is a no no. I've seen waste as high as 15% on a 3 tab, the dimensionals won't have as much waste.
This is a joke, right? Restocking 5-10% max., say on a $50 a square return the most it will cost is $5.00. The only way this is possible to run and pick up materials cheaper is, you don't pay your help nothing or your time isn't worth much to run and pick-up materials. $5 bucks won't pay for help and fuel let alone cost of vehicle and insurances rolled into it. This has to be one of the most ridiculous ways of "saving" money I've ever heard of. Each their own, but you won't get away with that mind set working for company.
Around here, paying by the square means subcontracting the job. If you're subbing the job or your help is doing that to you, I suggest new management, there's no other solution.
From where I'm sitting, a ~20% looks pretty big and $8K is a lot of money. Look, the point I'm trying to get across is that whenever I talk to a contractor, on any project it appears to me that the guys who will not give me quantifiable answer on costs before they come out are always much higher than the guys who will give me a quantifiable answer. I've used WOM, screening services, home shows and even picked them out of the phone book at random. I've had the same problem on my deck and on a bathroom I'm getting ready to do. I'll also add that I never had this problem before I moved into this area and into this nice a neighborhood. I can see no other variable.
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:01:40 GMT, "Mick" scribbled this interesting note:
Where we operate most houses are a traditional ranch style home with either hip or gable roofs-about half and half. Newer houses around here have adopted a style more common in the northeast with very steep roofs and usually quite cut up. Both of these features make no sense around here since there is no snow load and the more planes and penetrations in a roof the higher the likelihood of leaks and other problems. Plus that much taller roof profile makes for an attic with far more volume to be ventilated.
Most suppliers around here charge a minimum 20% restocking fee. On a house of some size this can run into about $100-more or less depending on the size of the house, and taking into assumption that 20% waste that is unnecessary and will have to be returned in this scenario.
We do not pay by the square, ever, because of this problem. We do one job at a time and have for just about thirty years. We manage every installation personally. We do not subcontract out for general contractors.
Seems like you have your ideas on how to manage your business and we have ours. Both will work, both can be right. Efficiency for you obviously means something different than it means for us, but as long as the job gets done well, on time, and for the specified payment, then all is good.
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
John,
I don't know where you get your #'s from. It was _you_ that was bragging about being so close you _only_ came up one bundle shy on the job. I have no doubt you _think_ that was excellent, and never figured how much extra it cost to get that $12 bundle between actual time and direct costs. Being conservative if you pay your help a modest $15 per hour, plus with actual costs, the figure is probably closer to $50 to get that extra bundle.
No one said to add 20% to all jobs except you. You yourself laid out all considerations for waste factor, after you said "Not True" when I said "Waste is factored into the style of roof. "
Now, even at 20% restocking charge, in order to hit $100 +/-, you have to return $500 worth of supplies. On the high side of $50 per square, you would be returning 10 square. Now to hit 10 square, a 100 square job @ 10% waste would be there, this is with 0% waste. I really haven't seen maybe 3 homes being 100 square residential here locally, and seriously doubt this is the norm in your area. Most residential homes we have been involved with are in the 30 square range. 10% waste factor would be 3 square, this would be a cut up roofline. Leaving 2 bundles on site, brings the waste down to 2-1/3 square. Now using your 4% waste (remember this is a cut up roofline, hardly possible only 4%) comes out to 1.2 square. You would have one square extra to return. Being $50 per square, 20% restock charge would cost you $10, far cry from $100 =/- . Being a cut up roofline, in reality you would use over
4% waste.Now you tell me, which is more efficient?
If you're going to throw figures around, at least be halfway sensible about it.
Other than curiousity, what good does this comparison do ? Obviously there are reasons why they vary from location to location aside from the conditions of the roof being worked upon.
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