Your call. I like trees - when they're not a nuisance. I had big maple cut down because it was over my sewer line. Besides eliminating that worry, I don't have clogged gutters anymore. Keeping trees from destroying sewer lines, clogging gutters, and crushing your house in a windstorm might be called "intelligent landscaping."
I seem to recall a huge tree that he doesn't want to cut down or harm being a prime factor too. Of course PVC would be swell if getting it in wasn't a problem.
If he's worried about backup into the house, then why do any of that instead of installing a backflow preventer valve on the main, which is exactly what it's designed for?
Except of course that it goes right next to a huge tree that he doesn't want to remove or harm.
Just because that seems to have happened to your neighbor doesn't mean it's going to happen to you any time soon.
When you get to the point of having a downstairs toilet or sink needing a long time to drain, that's when you'd need to look into the issue.
You seem to want to go looking for problems or issues before you even know you have a problem or issue.
The clean-out access cover on the tie-in into the drain line. This will be in the basement where the main drain stack goes through the basement floor.
Alternatively, you (or the plumber) can temporarily remove any or all toilets in the house and run a snake through the open drain-line for as far as it will go.
Yep...I knew that, just didn't bother bringing it up.
Having gotten estimates to have my drain pipe lined, I merely wanted to get across the point about TCO - Total Cost of Ownership.
He could also get to the point of having the failing pipe just clog suddenly. Plenty of sewers clog with the first notice being complete and sudden blockage. And if that happens in the middle of winter, with the ground frozen, he's going to be in worse shape, with less time to explore options and get a good price.
He has a decaying 90 year old pipe that has been inspected by camera and is down to 2" in spots. That IS a problem.
Snaking a pipe to clear it is no problem in winter. The pipes are buried well under ground - below the frost line. If freezing was an issue, then everyone would have frozen sewer pipes in the winter.
No it's not.
I'm sure he's got better ways to spend $1k / $5k / $10k on his house.
Here it would first flow out the lifting notches on the manhole cover. The channel across the bottom is open for camera access.
Not really. A check valve will prevent outside sewage coming into the house; it will do nothing if/when the sewer clogs, and you continue to generate sewage within said house that has no exit.
HERE is the solution to that:
Damned hard to get Ma to do the dishes out the back there and, I might add, the first one out on a frosty winter morning breaks the ice, so to speak.
It does encourage courtesy in the family though. "No, I can wait. you can go first".
-- Cheers,
John B.
I'd go with whichever is cheaper unless he is seriously thinking of staying a long time. I don't think the PVC will crack that fast so my thought is go with the cheaper way for most of the run. Where it goes under the tree or under the house may need something else. The idea is just to try to keep the cost down and not build something to last another 90 years again.
The man who installed my sewer pipe last year poured sand around it before backfilling the trench, so there are no rocks pressing against it. The ~1970 PVC pipes just bent when he dug them up.
jsw
So you agree with me on that point.
I did not say that a backflow-preventer does anything when/if the sewer clogs.
Read more carefully next time.
The construction drawings I've seen in the past said to backfill with sand so I believe your installer did the correct way. I know that's what I would want in my backfill around the pipe.
On the inside, I think he said he cannot get access to the main because it is buried under his basement floor. But, maybe he could break the floor and put one in etc.
If you meant putting a backflow preventer on the outside, that may be an option, but it means digging down to the main to do it and providing an access to the backflow preventer. In that scenario, it may be possible for him to put a vent in on the outside instead and let any overflow back up out onto the ground instead of dealing with a backflow preventer that could get clogged etc.
But, with both of these responses I am just guessing because we don't know the details of what fixtures are where, what levels they are in relation to the outside ground level, etc.
I didn't explain it very well, but I meant replacing most of the line out just up to the tree and street, but not past it. And maybe put in a curb or "near-curb" vent at the same time if no curb vent is there now. And, if he gets the line replaced as far out as the tree, maybe then consider cleaning out the line from there to the main, or maybe even inserting a 3-inch PVC inside the old cleaned out 4-inch from there out to the main if that is possible.
Again, these are just ideas without actually seeing what is there.
I believe he said he had a laundry sink and/or other drains in the basement. A vent at ground level isn't going to prevent a sewage flood into his basement like what happened next door because basement drains are going to be lower than the vent. That' why folks were recommending a backflow preventer.
Interesting idea, but I wonder what the plumbing inspector would say.... Some how I think he's going to have a problem where you try to avoid doing the correct repair by putting a 3" pipe inside a failed 4" one and rely on that leaking system for connection to the municipal sewer. The 3" probably isn't allowed just from a code standpoint even if it were properly connected and secure.
As I explained, the problem is that the chimney was sized for the furnace and water heater. The furnace requires a flue much larger than the water heater. With just the water heater left on a large chimney, in winter the combustion gases will cool off in the chimney and condense into acidic water. Over time that destroys the mortar in the flue joints. With the furnace there, it was also operating during the winter keeping the chimney warm enough so that condensation doesn't occur.
It won't cause the chimney to fail next year, but over time it will likely take it's toll.
Those joints inside the chimney are the ones I'm talking about.
The exhaust consists of gases which condense when it cools. With natural gas, the resulting condensate is acidic.
They are sold, approved, labeled by the safety agencies for that use. What you are referring to is galvanic corrosion. That requires that two different metals be in contact through an electrolyte. A dielectric can be used to seperate the metals. But in the case of the connection to the water heater vent, there is no electrolyte. If just two different metals being in contact resulted in corrosion all kinds of everyday things would be failing, but they don't.
That a valid option.
As I said, if they were saying other repairs were needed to the chimney itself and they were not, I agree that's a scam. But if they said the chimney needs a liner with just the gas water heater left on it, that's not a scam. It's sound practice.
If he only has a laundry sink in the basement and no other drains, he could just install a backflow prevent in the laundry sink drain line. They do make backflow preventers for smaller drain lines such as the laundry sink. I wrote about that idea earlier. The problem then becomes that, with the laundry sink drain prevented from backing up into the basement, the backup would go up and come out of a drain on the floor above the basement. And, it was for that reason that I suggested installing a ground level vent outdoors -- assuming, of course, that the ground level vent is lower than the first floor drains.
True. But it all would depend, in part, on exactly what is there now -- as well as what an inspector might say. The 3-inch PVC is allowed in most places depending on how many toilets, sinks, etc. get discharged into the line. Doing the connection from a 4-inch PVC, then to a 3-inch PVC that goes into the existing 4-inch line, and also adapting the existing 4-inch line back to the 3-inch PVC to prevent any backflow of sewage around the
3-inch PVC would take a little creativity. Whether it meets the code or not, I don't really know.Another option, which others have mentioned, would be to do the replacement of most of the main sewer line out to somewhere near the tree/street, and then do the relining process the OP talked about for the remainder of the line.
I still like the idea of putting in a whole new PVC line to the street and just bypassing all the old line. I bet it would be less costly than trying to dig up the old line till you get to the tree and then having to reline that portion of the pipe.from the tree to the street. Less skilled labor involved in putting in a whole new line than digging around the old line and then a different crew of folks to do the relining of the remaining pipe.
That's what I was thinking too. I'll bet once you have the relining boys onsite, whether they do 20 ft or the whole thing it's still going to be expensive.
Another option would be to dig the trench portion by the tree by hand. Hire some local day laborers that can dig carefully and perhaps go around the biggest roots. Then a regular plumbing crew can complete the large portion quickly and cost effectively. Assuming of course that there aren't other obstacles in the way.
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