Sewer pipe failing - suggestions?

[trader4]

LOL that's what I was thinking too. The backflow preventer is there to protect against waste water flowing into the house from the sewer system. That can happen when there is some unusual problem, ie the municipal sewer gets flooded with rainwater, clogged, etc. Then with no backflow preventer you could have your basement fill up with sewage through floor drains, laundry sinks, or even worse, it might come out the first floor drains....

If the pipe gets clogged, then flushing a toilet with or without the backflow preventer should produce the same result.

[rangerssuck]

Cops redirecting traffic at construction sites (even where none exists) is apparently a state law. It's stupid, but I can only fight one thing at a time.

The tree belongs to the city and is NOT going to be removed. Even though they would probably allow it, there's no way I'm cutting down a

90 year old perfectly healthy sycamore to save a few bucks. Remember, I'm a tree-hugging liberal.

I will most definitely get competitive quotes, but I would hardly call this "makeshift". The result of this proccess is a perfectly smooth, seamless pipe. Better and stronger than PVC.

[Ed Huntress]

A side note to keep in mind: I had what I thought was a flow problem (88 year old house, CI drain and sewer pipes) so I called the town first (Metuchen). If your town is anything like mine, they'll come out and run one of those cameras downstream of your house to check the street sewer line before you spend money having your own sewer line worked on. They did it for free.

It doesn't sound like an issue in your case but it was reassuring to have them check that out. Then I had the sewer line reamed out, and I have no flow problems. It may just have been some backing up in the line at the street, after Hurricane Irene. People were draining their basements for a couple of weeks after that.

[trader4]

It seems to me he's most concerned about a sewer line that is 90 years old, in poor condition and reduced down to 2". That alone needs to be corrected. Unless you'd rather take the chance that it will keep working until you find out it's clogged when it's 20F, the ground is frozen and there is 2 ft of snow. Then doing the job is likely to cost a lot more, with little time to explore the options.

Ideally, he'd correct the sewer line problem and install a backflow preventer. How important a backflow preventer is can depend on the local system. Some folks and their neighbors know that backups are common in their location. In other cases, like where I live, it's never happened.

[HerHusband]

I just saw that system demonstrated on "Ask This Old House". I thought it was a really slick option, but at $7700, no thanks...

$7700 would buy a lot of teenagers with shovels. :)

Unless your pipe runs directly under the trunk of the tree, I don't see why you couldn't work around it. You may not be able to get in there with a backhoe, but you could dig around the roots with a shovel to take the old pipe out and route a new one in the same location. I did that last year when I needed to run a landscape drain line, near a large fir tree (50+ feet tall). I just dug around the roots and fished the pipe underneath the roots.

I would dig out as close to the street connection as I could without incurring the $10K permits and traffic cops. :) Then I would replace the pipe up to that point.

Anthony

[rangerssuck]

The insurance offered by the water company for sewer lines is much as you described. I saw a job they did on another house, and it was pretty ugly. They don't pay enough to cover the job, and you HAVE to use their contractor.

39' from house to curb and an additional 15' inside the house. All of this is past any drains or fixtures. Accessing the pipe will require jackhammering in two places in the basement. Replaceing the pipe would require much more busting up of concrete (fifteen feet).

I'm in northern NJ.

[Doug]

I can't imagine the smell while draining the basement. Just curious, where did they drain it to? Storm sewers?

[Doug]

I agree with you but depending on how long you intend to own this house, cost vs quality may be in question.

[Ed Huntress]

Really old houses here have their sump pumps pumping into the sanitary sewer. They're grandfathered in.

That's not allowed in newer construction or after any modification to the house waste system. So most have a sump drain that runs, eventually, into the storm sewer.

The sanitary sewer was really overloaded for a week or so after the hurricane.

[Doug]

I agree with you but depending on how long you intend to own this house, cost vs quality may be in question.

[rangerssuck]

The problem with pipe bursting is that it requires access that I don't have on both ends of the pipe. The lining only requires less than a foot-long straight shot into the pipe on one end, and nothing at all on the other (street) end. $100/foot would come to $5500 in my case.

[Stormin Mormon]

As a tree hugging liberal, you'd really appreciate the police presence. Bigger government, and more regulation. Make sure all the laws are followed.

Be sure the new tubing isn't made from petroleum, and that it doesn't increase your carbon footprint. You can't afford more global warming.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

Cops redirecting traffic at construction sites (even where none exists) is apparently a state law. It's stupid, but I can only fight one thing at a time.

The tree belongs to the city and is NOT going to be removed. Even though they would probably allow it, there's no way I'm cutting down a

90 year old perfectly healthy sycamore to save a few bucks. Remember, I'm a tree-hugging liberal.

I will most definitely get competitive quotes, but I would hardly call this "makeshift". The result of this proccess is a perfectly smooth, seamless pipe. Better and stronger than PVC.

[rangerssuck]

Thanks, Mom :-)

I do know what a backflow preventer is, and how it works. What it will do is prevent other people's sewage from ending up in my house. What it won't do is prevent my own sewage from ending up in my basement.

I AM the OP, and my concern is, well, both. I am not concerned so much about a blockage or overflow in the municipal sewer line - they maintain it well and they have insurance should it back up into my house. I AM concerned about the 4" cast iron both inside my house and from the house to the street. It is quite restricted now, and could either block completely or collapse. neither of these would be helped by a backflow preventer. That said, it would be easy enough to add one, as the job does include bypassing a whole-house trap with new PVC. I don't see why a BFP couldn't be plumbed into that spot.

The neighbor's problem was somewher either inside his house or in the run to the street. It was solved, at least temporarily, by snaking his

4" line. Wha I'm not sure of is where they inserted the snake. There are three different cleanouts in my house, and I assume his is pretty much the same (same builder, same basic blueprint).

[rangerssuck]

Well, that's exactly my point. The backflow preventer isn't going to stop my own sewer water from ending up in my basement. It only prevents the rest of the world's crap from landing here.

[HeyBub]

Okay. Screwy idea #2.

Get some day laborers from your local Home Depot parking lot to dig up the existing line. Lay a new line.

My son did that (sort of). His next-door neighbor (from Guatemala) dug up about 60' of sewer line and replaced it with some sort of heavy-duty PVC-looking stuff. Total charge was $500.

Screwy idea #3

My city replaced the sanitary sewer main serving my home not long ago. The original line was 8" concrete pipe. They replaced it with 10" PVC-looking plastic. What was novel, was they did it without digging up the original! Here's how they did it.

They started at one end of the block and PUSHED (more like hammered) to new pipe in place. As it moved along, it fractured and split the old concrete pipe. Then the contractor came along with an itty-bitty Bobcat, dug down 8' to the new line and attached each individual home to the new pipe. After that, another crew followed, repairing fences and re-sodding the yards where they dug access pits.

Point is, there may be a similar service available to you.

Keep looking.

Screwy idea #4

Sell the house and move on.

[Doug]

I understand .... I'm in my 14th year of our "10-year plan" !! When I bought this new house, I planned to stay at least 10 years and said to myself all bets are off beyond 10 years.

Wish you luck on your sewer job. With what you said in mind, I guess I'd aim for the average cost hoping to get not the best but not the worst quality so it allows you still a reasonable time to stay in the house without worry. I know this advice tho is easier said than done.

[Doug]

You know this may sound crazy but except for under your house, I wonder if PVC would be the best idea from house to main sewer line? I say this because should it ever crack, it should be easy to fix.. splice out bad part and put in a new splice of pvc pipe. Perhaps something to think about???

[DerbyDad03]

Sure...if you want to think about digging up the existing pipe now and then digging up the broken section later.

The point of the lining system is to avoid the digging. Since the lining is an epoxy laden sleeve, whatever would break a PVC pipe would break the epoxy lining also.

Even if whatever caused the breakage wasn't covered under warranty and had to be dug up, at least with the lining the initial dig has been avoided.

Keep in mind that when pricing the replacement of the cast iron with PVC, it's not just the cost of the plumbing work, but also the cost of the re-landscaping that has to be factored in. That might even include sidewalk or driveway repairs. The total cost could add up pretty quickly.

[TomR]

You may want to consider the sewer line insurance plan. You could also be sure your homeowners insurance covers a sewer backup and all of the cleanout and restoration in case you do have a backup.

If you have a laundry sink in the basement, but no other plumbing such as a toilet etc., then any backup should tend to come up into the laundry sink first before that overflows into your basement.

If that is your setup, you could consider putting in a backflow preventer in the laundry sink drain line so sewage won't back up into the laundry sink and overflow. But, of course, if you do that the next level where the sewer backup may overflow would be in a tub or toilet on the floor above the basement. But there may be a way to prevent that -- by installing a curb vent or other vent outside so that if there is a backup it will overflow outside instead of inside. Do you already have any curb vent or other vent outside? The idea is to have an overflow escape point that is outside but is below any overflow or escape point that is inside your house.

Digging up and replacing the sewer line on the outside is fairly easy, depending on how deep it is in the ground. I have done that a few times. I am not so sure that I would be too concerned about the sewer line that is under the basement floor right now as long as you have the laundry sink backflow preventer in place and a vent on the outside. Or, if the basement layout and home layout permits it, you could consider running a new PVC sewer line from the stack inside the home -- above the basement floor line -- and then out through the wall above where the existing sewer line is located, and continue that new line on the outside by digging a trench etc. -- and include cleanouts and vents where needed and appropriate. It all really depends on the details of your existing setup. With more details, it may be possible to come up with a specific plan that will do what you want and will cost a lot less money.

Good luck.

[Han]

rangerssuck wrote in news:b9014bf3-8c21-401f-8c56- [e-mail]:

I'm in Bergen county, 07410, and I considered the 3K I paid Dutra money well spent. They dug a trench for the new sewer line (nothing done inside the house), and got the town to pay for clearing the linein the street.