Running water in my garage

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

OK, here's my scenario. I have a typical ranch/rambler with the attached garage on the front in an L-shape. Previously a small part of the garage-to-house entry was boxed in to create a laundry room, and this is where the water heater also lives.

What I want to do is add an outside water spigot on the front of the garage. The simplest way is to tap the cold water line in the laundry room, go up into the garage roof framing, over and then down the front wall. The laundry room is heated space, but the garage has been known to freeze in the winter, so I'll add a cutoff inside the heated space.

Mainly my question is one of material. The obvious best is rigid copper, but that's a buttload of work, expensive, and I'm lousy at sweating. Plus I have a semi-enclosed bit of framing where I have to make a 90-degree turn and can't really get in to lay pipe.

CPVC? Affordable and not hard to use, but the same problem with getting through that boxed-in bit of framing.

PEX? I like it, but have never worked with it, and I don't have the right tools.

PVC? Indoors?

My gut choice for this is polyethylene tubing, the same stuff we use to pipe the refrigerator's ice maker. Very affordable and easy to snake through enclosed spaces with no joins. I used the 3/8" stuff a few years ago to add a filter housing to my kitchen sink, using the push-lock poly fittings. Very easy and no leaks to date. But is it anything like code compliant?

[Ed Pawlowski]

wrote

Check out these guys. Look into using compression fittings instead of special tools.

In a harsh environment, it can be brittle and burst. I'd not use it in a hidden area like a garage attic.

[gfretwell]

Pex is the best choice from what you say. I think there are some wrench type fittings for PEX. I have really never used it. Just be sure you have a way to drain the pipe down when you turn the water off. A hose bib on the feed end plus opening the hose bib will do it.

[hallerb]

de quoted text -

PEX is the way to go, some pex tools can be reanted or cheaper ones are available check home depot

PEX is freeze resistant, freezing just expands it a bit............

Easy to run around obstructions

[Tony Hwang]

Hi. Use PEX and rent tool(s) you need from HD by the hour if want.

[mm]

Well, IMO, you shouldn't have used that for the ice maker either. They will spring a leak, with no provocation. In the middle of the hose, not at the end even. Replace it with copper tubing. At that thickenss you can just bend the stuff. Maybe for bending you should wrap it around a tube or cylinder so that it doesn't kink.

A friend's tubing to her ice maker started leaking, fortunately when there was a party in her basement and someone noticed. The fridge was in the kitchen on the first floor. The PE tubing to my hunidifier broke all by itself too.

Neither of these were harsh enviromnents, certainly not the girl's and even in my case, the leak was 30 inches from the furance, so I don't think the heat did it, since the furnace is in the basement where it never gets very hot. I didn't notice the hose being brittle either.

Which line?

[Jay Hanig]

PEX is easier than you think and you don't have to pay a fortune for the tools. Here's a PEX cinch clamp crimper for $31 shipped:

The only other stuff you need are some stainless steel cinch clamps. Here's a kit from the same seller that has the crimping tool, 100 clamps (of 1/2" and 3/4" size) and a tubing cutter for $65.

Another alternative is to rent from Home Depot or Lowes. They've got these available.

My girlfriend asked me to install an outdoor spicket for her to use watering her flowers. I agreed to do it thinking I would be working with copper. When I got under her house, imagine my horror when I saw PEX! I didn't know anything about it.

A little research initially suggested that the tools ran $150 on up to about $300. My horror increased. But then I found there is more than one type of PEX clamp and the cinch type use a much cheaper tool. Then I watched a youtube video on how to make PEX connections.

It's really easy... much easier than working with copper. You just make a 90° cut in your tubing, stuff the fitting into the tube and then apply the clamp. You have to put a little ass on the clamp to make it go but it's very positive; you'll know when it's right. After you've done a couple of them it gets very quick and easy.

The fittings and the PEX itself are available at any plumbing supply department... once again Lowes or HD.

Jay

[jamesgangnc]

I'd find an alternative location. That much exposed pipe is going to get frozen by someone forgetting eventually.

[Evan]

So here is a question in return to you...

If the install at the desired location (i.e. front wall of garage) is so uber complicated that you are considering using alternative materials to install that one run of pipe, why not save yourself some aggravation and install the outside faucet on the laundry room wall and just buy a longer hose ?

Hmm... Sounds almost too simple...

~~ Evan

[willshak]

[e-mail] wrote the following:

You don't need Pex tools if you use Sharkbite fittings.

PVC? Indoors?

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

Ah, seems like PEX is a better condender than I'd thought. Thanks to everyone who responeded with a suggestion, I appreciate it!

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

Some men will pound down a popped nail a thousand times instead of yanking it out and installing a screw.

Considering the number of unstated facts that you do not have and thus cannot consider, yes, your solution is too simple and in fact does not solve my problem. But thanks for taking the time to suggest it.

[Evan]

No, it is merely the easiest solution since you by your own admission can't sweat copper pipes (which indicates you should let someone else do this project as that is a basic fundamental task in plumbing) and have no experience with the other types of plumbing you mentioned (again by your own admission)...

And you are deluded if you think you will be able to fish a pipe or some sort of tubing down the inside of a wall without opening it up to attach it at several points inside the wall to actual structure...

So, umm yeah... Popping a faucet out on the wall of the "Previously enclosed garage-to-house entry area that is now a laundry room" is actually the simplest and smartest way to go for someone in your situation if you insist on doing this work yourself...

It is ALWAYS easier for a DIY-er to buy a longer hose to attach to the faucet than it is for them to install the behind-the-scenes things that you need to know how to do in order to have that hose bib located exactly where you want it... I would go with the longer hose as it will save you a hundred dollars in materials if you do the job yourself and close to $500 in labor when you figure out you are in over your head and hire someone to finish what you started...

I mean unless you were hoping that we would all be able to guess what your unstated facts are, because GOOD advice comes from people who possess a better awareness of the situation, so you should have stated those facts so they could be considered... I mean unless you were trying to tell us all unconsciously by pointing out how poor your rough in plumbing skills are that you were hoping people here would talk you out of this...

Why not disclose the unstated facts and let us all know why the hose bib needs to be precisely on the front wall of the garage and that nowhere else within 10 feet on the front of your house would fulfill the need of a water spout to be used outside ?

~~ Evan

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

Do you have experience with designing environmental alterations to accomodate physical disabilities, mobility impairments and chronic pain? If not, count your blessings. Assume that I've analyzed the situation and found a suitable solution.

[DerbyDad03]

Have you considered PEX and Sharkbite fittings?

No tools required other than a sharp blade. Yes, there are PEX cutting tools, but a sharp blade works just fine, especially for one-time jobs.

There is also a ~$3.00 tool for removing Shark Bite fittings, but they can be disconnected without it.

Shark Bite fittings are a bit more expensive than other fittings, but for what sounds like one-time job, they may be well worth the money.

Shark Bites work for Copper and PEX, so transitioning between the 2 materials requires no tools - other than a pipe cutter for the copper.

My HD has a whole display set-up of the different fittings. If I needed a large number, I'd go to a plumbing supply store, but for one or two, HD is fine.

Look here - it really is this easy.

[jamesgangnc]

The sharkbite stuff does work pretty well if you just have a few connections to make. They are pricey though, $5 to $10 apiece. I recently used a couple to transition from cpvc to pex and back. It's nice that you can take the connection apart too.

[DerbyDad03]

$5 - $10 is a little high from what I've seen, but I guess it depends on what you buy and where you buy them - geographic location and supplier.

For a job I recently did I sweated together a 6 connection section on my workbench and then used 1 Shark Bite to connect it to a PEX run and another Shark Bite to tap the PEX into a copper run on the other side of the basement.

No sweating up in the joist bays and really simple to run the PEX over the ductwork instead of trying to sweat multiple lengths of copper in order to cross the basement. The swivel feature of the Shark Bites is a huge advantage, especially when installing a T, and probably worth the extra cost all on its own.

The other advantage is being able to work on wet pipes. A few weeks ago I had to cut and cap a vertical pipe to get ready for a bigger job. I turned off the main, cut the pipe, slipped the Shark Bite cap on and turned the water back on - all before the wife, who was cooking dinner at the time, even knew I had turned the water off!

It would have taken me longer just to gather the supplies I would have needed to sweat the cap on, never mind figureing out how to get the water out of the pipe.

[Oren]

PEX is the cat's meow.

For the outside hose bib you will need a transition stub-out (pex >

copper) secured to a stud in the wall ("support").

If you have a Ferguson plumbing near you, they will help you in necessary connectors. See locations by Zip code.....