Run away cars

[LSMFT]

How can somebody be too STUPID to shut the switch off.

[salty]

We are discussing cars that are malfunctioning. Perhaps not being able to shift into neutral is connected to the malfunction in some way. Or, perhaps not. You can't rule it out without correctly and completely diagnosing what is causing the runaway problem.

I'm also not sure how many people, in the midst of a crisis, would be quick to assume that turning off the key would NOT lock the steering and make things worse.

[trader4]

I agree 100%. I've said several times in the various threads here that you need a thorough independent investigation of the cars involved which includes looking at how the transmissions are designed and also analyzing the actual transmissions. An investigation similar to what the NTSB does for an airplane crash.

But what I was responding to here was someone making a post saying that they had scene reports that the transmissions were actually designed so that they could not be shifted into neutral while moving. I have surely haven't seen that and would like to see a link if the person has it.

On another note, I read an article yesterday that said attributed the fatal Lexus crash with the CA partrol officer driving to a stuck floormat. That's the first and only time I've seen a cause listed, so not sure as to the accuracy.

Yes, that could be a factor. BUT, the longer these drives go on, the less likely you would think that would be. The latest guy drove 20 miles. Surely in that time, a few things would happen. One would be that you'd very likely have a straight section of highway and/or a section where you had some space off to the sides, etc. So, if you shut it off and the steering wheel did lock, it would still seem to be a far preferable choice to just continuing to ride along out of control not knowing what was up ahead. Even if the wheel locked, by applying the brakes, you'd very likely stop before having a fatal crash. That choice sure looks good to me compared with just going along out of control.

[Harry K]

[e-mail]:

But is does happen :). I blew the clutch servo in my F150 20 miles out in the boonies at a stop sign. Got it going by starting in gear and drove it back home over gravel/paved/major highway. Of course I know how to clutchless shift...

Harry K

[Harry K]

Same here. I mentally tried to come up with a scenario where continuing to runaway would be better than shutting off the engine even it it locked the steering. Can't do it.

On a side note, I tried the 'shut off engine' and 'lock the wheel without removing key' in my Ford 500. No problem shifting to nuetral or shutting it off under fairly hard acceleration. The locking without removing key? Dunno. The steering was so stiff at a stop that I couldn't turn the wheel far enough to tell if it was locked.

Harry K

[HeyBub]

If the California Highway Patrol are driving Lexus automobiles, well, that explains a lot.

[mkirsch1]

There are several instances of this being stated on answers.yahoo.com:

?qid=3D20100309153458AA9gkGx name a few.

Yes, I know that's not exactly an authoratative source of information but it's the best I can find. I tend to give some credence to consistent intelligent-sounding responses. I take them with fewer grains of salt.

[trader4]

p://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=3D20100308222153AAXey3Phttp://answ=ers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=3D20100309153458AA9gkGx

...to name a few.

Good grief. Not exactly an authoratative source? In yahoo answers anyone can post anything. Those threads are nothing but pure speculation without a single reference to any credible source of info. And besides that, it simply makes no sense. Why the hell would anyone purposefully design a tranny so that it could not be shifted into neutral while driving? Engines today with electronic controls have rev limiters that would prevent the engine from over revving. Plus, I don't recall hearing reports about cars blowing up all over the place because they can be put into neutral. What about all the manual tranny cars?

[trader4]

ttp://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=3D20100308222153AAXey3Phttp...

Here's the latest news on the San Diego runaway Prius guy, from Fox:

On Monday, James Sikes called 911 to report that he was behind the wheel of an out-of-control Toyota Prius going 94 mph on a freeway near San Diego. Twenty-three minutes later, a California Highway Patrol officer helped guide him to a stop, a rescue that was captured on videotape.

Since then, it's been learned that:

=97 Sikes filed for bankruptcy in San Diego in 2008. According to documents, he was more than $700,000 in debt and roughly five months behind in payments on his Prius;

=97 In 2001, Sikes filed a police report with the Merced County Sheriff's Department for $58,000 in stolen property, including jewelry, a digital video camera and equipment and $24,000 in cash;

=97 Sikes has hired a law firm, though it has indicated he has no plans to sue Toyota;

=97 Sikes won $55,000 on television's "The Big Spin" in 2006, Fox40.com reports, and the real estate agent has boasted of celebrity clients such as Constance Ramos of "Extreme Home Makeover.

[terry]

Harry I agree. Having learned to drive on a vintage 1926 Daimler hearse (used as an ambulance and hearse in the UK during WWII) which had a 'crash box' (that's a manual with no synchromesh) back in the

1950s, have done the same thing you describe.

That vehicle had a handle sticking out front for starting the engine, which had been changed during WWII to a 1938 model, Bedford (that was the UK version of GMC) straight six. Years later we drove a 1963 GMC pickup in North America and its engine looked identical to the 1938 engine!

With clutch inoperative starting on a slight down-slope if possible (even the slope to the side of the road may help) and continuing in gear all time, because of no clutch control, one can get home to then work on the problem. Did that twice.

Also got a V.W 'bug' home one time with a broken throttle cable .............. a piece of string from the driver's window run around to the back of the vehicle actuated the carburetor. It was about 8 miles home and just drove along with the traffic 'pulling the string'.

Had a diesel VW Golf run away on me (in traffic) once; breathing it's own crankcase fumes on a hot day. Knew instantly what had happened! Declutched, engine raced like it was going to break apart, pulled into side of the road and with all brakes hard on stalled the engine by bringing in the clutch (hoping nothing would break!). It didn't and when things cooled down drove to the dealership who had the part (nothing more than a modified breather tube) to fix problem.

I think a lot of the problem is not knowing your vehicle; although this fly by wire stuff is somewhat scary. Recall meeting a factory manager one time with a broken down vehicle out in the country, we got him going to the nearest town by using a junk war surplus radio capacitor as a substitute for the one across the ignition distributor points. Nowadays my son plugs in his laptop to 'tune' his engine!

[clare]

Everone is looking for an electrical or electronic boogeyman to blame

- and I can tell you, absolutely and without any doubt, there is NO electrical or electronic failure that could POSSIBLY make it impossible to shift the vehicle to neutral, as the neutral control is STRICTLY MECHANICAL. No need to diagnose what caused the runaway problem, because there can be NO inter-related issues.

[clare]

That was given as the cause the day afeter the crash It had a winter floormat from a fifferent model installed OVER TOP OF the original equipment floor mat. It did not fit right, even if it had been installed the way it was supposed to be (which is with no other floor-mat underneath it)

[clare]

innews:iMydnTiP48LsKwTWnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

And without a clutch it is still very easy to knock a standard transmission into neutral.

[clare]

It's all "i've been told" that it "may be".

Absolutely no credibility at all.

[clare]

Up to 1962, the engine WAS the same old stove-bolt 6. (235 and 261) In

1963 the new engines came on stream (194, and 230 - eventually also 250 inch)

[trader4]

Excuse me if I doubt that you have the personal experience with the design of every model of Toyota made over the last 7 years to be able to make that blanket statement. It may have a high probability of being true, but clearly you are over reaching here and just discredit yourself.

Yes there is.. Because cars are not supposed to just randomly go to full throttle by themselves. Whether it's because of sticking floor mats, sticking throttles or an electronic problem, the root cause needs to be found so that these cars can be fixed and the potentially fatal problem avoided in future automobiles. Would you just sweep an airline crash under the carpet too?

[Tony]

I suppose he could be reported to web TV for using other than plain text where it is not allowed, but it's much easier if the offender simply complies with the rules.

[Tony]

At a job with a brand new van, 3 on the floor, the clutch was a real SOB. It was so bad that my knee started giving me pain. I tested others and none of them were so difficult to disengage the clutch but the dealer and my boss denied anything was wrong. OK, so I used the clutch to stop and start only. From gear to gear did it without the clutch. After some time something happened to first gear. Couldn't get it into first until it came to a full stop, and then sometimes had to go to another gear and back to first. It ended up going into the tranny shop at least 5 times and they never could fix the problem. Everything looked good, synchronizers looked like new but they changed it anyway. Still never worked right... for the other employees that used the clutch anyway. For me I could still go from 2nd to 1st without the clutch.

[salty]

Sorry, but your opinion cannot be considered to be a fact, just because you assert that it is.

[salty]

My 1941 Chevy CK pickup and my 1946 Chevy CK pickup had a 216 inch inline 6 cylinder with a splash oiling system. They had a socket in the front of the engine, and a removable crank for emergency hand starting. That was the engine used throughout WWII and for several years after. The 235 was a later engine that had an oil pump.