Review: LED replacements for T8 Fluorescent Tubes

It is a curiosity, that's for sure. No biggy.

You should check out the LED tube thread. Stormin and I have just started replacing some of our ballast-required flourescent tubes with direct wire LED tubes. Same fixture, you just cut the ballast out of the circuit and wire 120 V directly to the tombstones.

So far, we like them.

One minor problem up here. No electrical inspector will EVER pass them if he sees them - they are not CSA approved, and the fixture isn't any more either when you re-wire it. The tombstones are not rated for the 120 volts either. Would you get caught? Mabee, mabee not

- but there are direct fits available that ARE CSA approved and fully legal, as well as purpose designed LED fixtures - but they do cost a bit more.

What are you paying for the tubes? just for interest.

I checked some tombstones that I pulled out of some of the about $ 10 shop lights. They are rated for 800 volts and UL listed.

Looks to me like the tombstones should be rated for 120 or more volts as the lamps are hooked directly to the AC line through a ballast that does not cut the voltage to a much lowe voltage.

First, I'm curious about this thread thing.

I assume that if you are asking about prices, then you have not seen the first 2 posts from Stormin' and I regarding the LED tubes that we purchased, correct?

I assume that you are only seeing the responses since you started the "Manual tire changers" thread/sub-thread/alternate-universe-thread. ;-) For some of us, your topic appears as the 3rd post in the LED tube thread and all the responses just follow in line from there.

I'm really curious as to what you would see if you looked at the thread entitled "Review: LED replacements for T8 Fluorescent Tubes". Would you mind checking that out? I wonder if all you see is the first 2 posts.

In any case, here is what Stormin' bought:

They are apparently "dual-end powered" tubes where the hot is wired to a tombstone on one of the fixture and the neutral is wired to the tombstone at the other.

I bought these:

These are single end powered so they are wired with the hot and neutral on a single tombstone with the other end becoming nothing more than a tube holder.

I paid $12.99 per tube since I bought small quantities. Volume discounts are available. Similar tubes are $20 at the home centers.

As far as passing an electrical inspection that's a good point. EarthLED is closed right now, but I'm going to call them later and see what they say about voiding the UL et al listings.

re: "The tombstones are not rated for the 120 volts either."

That's an interesting question. I used the tombstones that came with my fixture. They are non-shunted so they work with the single end tubes. However, if I had shunted tombstones, I could buy non-shunted tombstones from EarthLED which are not only UL listed, but also rated for 600V.

Have a T12 (1.5 in.) Tube? You are all set! No tombstone change required."

If there was any question as to whether existing tombstones are rated for

I too am curious about Ralph's comments, especially the code restrictions. Am I mistaken or is he in Canada.

The tubes I ordered came with two, self-adhesive labels to be placed prominently on each fixture to advise the fixtures have been converted to LED.

As an aside, I noticed Costco is selling a two pack of FEIT brand LED replacement tubes for about $18. I think they were 4100k and 1800 lumens.

Clare is in Canada. He is the one that mention possible problems with the inspectors. I don't know where Ralph lives but was the one that mentioned the voltage rating on the tombstones he pulled out.

HD has some 1800 lumen tubes also. I think they might be to dim.

I forgot to comment on this before...

I doubt a label, even if supplied by the LED tube vendor, would sway an inspector towards passing a fixture that wasn't originally rated for its "modified use".

All the labels do is warn the user. Labels fade, labels fall off, labels never get applied. If this really is a code issue - or if enough accidents happen - then I wouldn't be surprised if (eventually) they change the pin configuration of LED tubes and supply (sell) LED-specific tombstones.

That would prevent the installation of T8/T12 tubes in a modified fixture.

I see I erred and it was Clare that made the comments about electrical codes. I wonder if he has a citation?

I normally don't engage in this kind of rationalization, but I have a difficult time believing Costco would sell these retrofit tubes if retrofitting an existing fixture would not pass inspection.

Yes, I know they might, but from a liability perspective, it would seem to put Costco, with very deep pockets, squarely into the crosshairs.

But there is only a low fillament voltage across the pins. They are certified forn 800 volta across a 4 foot tube, but only for about 10 volts from pin to pin. Do these units put 120 volts from end to end, or pin to pin. If end to end the CSA certification is valid. If pin to pin they are not being used for the approved application and are therefore non-certified. The ones I saw all used 120 volts pin to pin, which, to put it mildly, scared the crap out of me.

snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...

This is a micro-aggression and we meed a safe space, canceling finals, and most of all therapy dogs. You anteing up? How about the flag US or Canadian?

Stormin's application is within the certification and safe. Yours is not within the certification, and is, frankly, not safe.. Also, I immagine you are quoting US$ pricing. At Costco Canada and several other Canadian suppliers we can buy direct replacement LED tubes - set of 2 40s for IIRC $38.00 Canadion which translates to about US$14 per tube. Fully CSA and UL approved - direct fit replacements with no modifications to the fixture.

Can you imagine someone installing a standard tube in your modified fixture???? Particularly with the power on???? In Stormin's the light wouldn't light, but there would not likely be any harm done (which is why it is still within the certification - kinda-sorta-mabee-almost - in a whattheheckish fashion.

Why does it scare the crap out of you?

I posted a link to the tombstones sold by EarthLED. They say they are rated for 600 volts. It doesn't say anything about "over a 4' foot tube". It specifically says for use with a "single end powered LED" tube.

I'll post it again...

I'll quote from the link:

"Retrofitting a fluorescent T8 fixture to single end powered LED T8 ballast bypass direct wire tube light? These non-shunted sockets are for you! They allow the wiring of one side of the tube light with a live and neutral connection.

UL Listed Rated to 600 Volts, 660 Watts G13 Pin Type"

The Feits will almost burn your retinas if you look directly at them.

This would be REQUIRED to get CSA approval on the single end bulbs in Canada

They don't sell the conversion tubes in Canada because it is iullegal. They DO sell the "direct fit" tubes because no modification is required.

The safety requirements in Canada are generally MUCH more stringent in the USA. Technically in the US all electrical devices must be UL "listed" - which really just means they will not burn your house down in normal use and won't kill you from a distance of 10 feet - or something like that. It is insurance driven (UL is Underwriters Labs)

In Canada they musr be CSA "approved" - which means there is virtually no way even an idiot can kill themselves with it, even it the unlikeliest of circumstances.

The law is not consistantly applied or enforced - but it is a heavy stick when applied.. I learned all this when employed by a small 3rd tier computer manufacturer. Getting CSA approval on a system was an expensive and somewhat daunting task as you needed to certify virtually every combination of features you were going to offer.

You could start with a CSA approved case, CSA approved power supply, CSA approved motherboard, video card, modem, NIC, keyboard and mouse and you still did not have a CSA approved computer - and switching to a different video card voided the ciertification.. Any non-approved modification of a CSA certified device renders the CSA certification void..

It is similar to your FAA and a certified plane. Any modifications without a STC (Supleimental type certificate), or the replacement od ANYTHING with a non-certified part, or any repair performed by someone whoi is not a currently licenced AME renders the certification on the plane VOID - making it illegal to fly - and the penalties are pretty stiff when applied.

I'm talking primarilly about the original tombstones - but also the FACT that it is "possible" to install a standard tube in that tombstone - which is NOT SAFE.

However, it's you shop, your fire insurance, your liability And they are NO DIFFERENT than a standard non-chunted tombstone as used in virtually every older style flourescent fixture. The listing on them is NOT for 600 volts pin to pin..

I saw it. Still not impressed. Still won't pass canadian inspection. Will never neet CSA approval.

But the high voltage is NOT impressed across the 2 pins. Across the pins sees only less than 12 volts in typical operation The 600 or 800 vots is the ionization voltage BETWEEN the 2 filaments - from tomstone to tomestone.

No, you didn't start a new thread. You changed the subject line and hijacked the original thread which is visible in the post you quoted from Derbydad and responded to. it's the reference MID in your post, below:

MID:

Ref:

Subject: Re: Review: LED replacements for T8 Fluorescent Tubes

Maybe you shouldn't claim to be some IT expert again in the future, as clearly, you aren't.

It's easy. You replied to a post by Derby and changed the subject. You didn't create a new thread, idiot savant, you hijacked this one!