RETURN DUCT WORK

RETURN DUCT WORK Group: alt.home.repair Date: Sat, Oct 18, 2003, 4:26pm (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Bswap) Hello I have an older home, which has only two returns in the house one on southside and one on the northside. My questions is: one return passes below two bedrooms, can I tap into the return and use it as a return for the two rooms or will this cause a problem. Question 2: Can I place a vent on two sides of a wall and share the same return for two rooms or will this cause a problem. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=3D [8]=3DVENT =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 [8] WALL WITH PIP= E

8 DUCT WORK =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0[8] =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0[8] =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0[8]

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John wrote:

No problem with question #1, only problem with #2 question is sound transmission.

John williamson

Well you really should have the whole thing checked out and evaluated to determine the proper size needed for supply and returns. It takes someone on site to make that determination.

The answer to your first question is maybe and as noted the second is maybe if the sound transmission is not a problem.

Best advice I can give you at this time, is that you need to have someone that understands what can happen if the static pressures are screwed up on your unit, and rooms, and how your comfort may be compromised to look it over.

Part of our licence continuing education today dealt with this very issue..if you dont know ManD, get someone who does.

Re: RETURN DUCT WORK (CBHvac) wrote: Best advice I can give you at this time, is that you need to have someone that understands what can happen if the static pressures are screwed up on your unit, and rooms, and how your comfort may be compromised to look it over. Part of our license continuing education today dealt with this very issue..if you don't know ManD, get someone who does.

++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bswap had written first: Hello I have an older home, which has only two returns in the house one on southside and one on the northside. My questions is: one return passes below two bedrooms, can I tap into the return and use it as a return for the two rooms or will this cause a problem. Question 2: Can I place a vent on two sides of a wall and share the same return for two rooms or will this cause a problem. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=3D [8]=3DVENT =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 [8] WALL WI= TH PIPE 8 DUCT WORK =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0[8] =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0[8] =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0[8]

---------------------- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A088888888888

+++++++++++++++++++ John wrote: Oh come on, this is crazy, the guy wants to add a couple of returns to the bedrooms from a return duct. He could just undercut the doors and accomplish the same thing. I guess if he undercut the doors someone would say he would have to hire someone come in and to do a "man D" because he undercut the door.

Sorry but this answer is totally off the mark, if you want to debate the static pressure and duct design problems, have at it.

John Williamson VA HVAC Master

40 yrs trade Mechanical Contractor Building Facility Controls Contractor Mechanical Designer (designed thousands of commercial, industrial, and residential ductwork systems)

Best advice I can give you at this time, is that you need to have someone that understands what can happen if the static pressures are screwed up on your unit, and rooms, and how your comfort may be compromised to look it over. Part of our license continuing education today dealt with this very issue..if you don't know ManD, get someone who does.

++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bswap had written first:

Hello I have an older home, which has only two returns in the house one on southside and one on the northside. My questions is: one return passes below two bedrooms, can I tap into the return and use it as a return for the two rooms or will this cause a problem. Question 2: Can I place a vent on two sides of a wall and share the same return for two rooms or will this cause a problem. = [8]=VENT [8] WALL WITH PIPE 8 DUCT WORK [8] [8] [8]

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88888888888

+++++++++++++++++++ John wrote:

Oh come on, this is crazy, the guy wants to add a couple of returns to the bedrooms from a return duct. He could just undercut the doors and accomplish the same thing. I guess if he undercut the doors someone would say he would have to hire someone come in and to do a "man D" because he undercut the door.

Sorry but this answer is totally off the mark, if you want to debate the static pressure and duct design problems, have at it.

John Williamson VA HVAC Master

40 yrs trade Mechanical Contractor Building Facility Controls Contractor Mechanical Designer (designed thousands of commercial, industrial, and residential ductwork systems)

Good for you...seen guys like you screw up a single 2 ton install... Not trying to argue with you, but if you REALLY have designed that many systems, you could have also told him why it would be important to insure that not only was the returns sized correctly for proper airflow from each room, but why one leak could result in a mold issue as well.

You being in VA, and having designed several hundred systems, hope your mold insurance is up to date. :) I just sat through several hours of guys that have more experence than you and me and half the other group together have a real serious talk about this.

Personally, in a residential setting, under 3000SF, undercut doors are fine, but, it depends on things you and I cant see. Just like if I went and ask you about the last geothermal system I installed, while principle and theory are the same, each install is different...and the proper answer would have been to run the numbers again...altho, there was no issues with that install, using it as an example. Same with Mondays installation....19 10 ton Predator units..you are familiar with those? One controller...hell...maybe you are the guy that is coming down that is gonna program them...

++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bswap had written first: Hello I have an older home, which has only two returns in the house one on southside and one on the northside. My questions is: one return passes below two bedrooms, can I tap into the return and use it as a return for the two rooms or will this cause a problem. Question 2: Can I place a vent on two sides of a wall and share the same return for two rooms or will this cause a problem. =3D [8]=3DVENT [8] WALL WITH PIPE 8 DUCT WORK [8] [8] [8]

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88888888888 +++++++++++++++++++ John wrote: Oh come on, this is crazy, the guy wants to add a couple of returns to the bedrooms from a return duct. He could just undercut the doors and accomplish the same thing. I guess if he undercut the doors someone would say he would have to hire someone come in and to do a "man D" because he undercut the door. Sorry but this answer is totally off the mark, if you want to debate the static pressure and duct design problems, have at it. John Williamson VA HVAC Master 40 yrs trade Mechanical Contractor Building Facility Controls Contractor Mechanical Designer (designed thousands of commercial, industrial, and residential ductwork systems) +++++++++++ CBHvac wrote

Good for you...seen guys like you screw up a single 2 ton install... Not trying to argue with you, but if you REALLY have designed that many systems, you could have also told him why it would be important to insure that not only was the returns sized correctly for proper airflow from each room, but why one leak could result in a mold issue as well. You being in VA, and having designed several hundred systems, hope your mold insurance is up to date. :) I just sat through several hours of guys that have more experience than you and me and half the other group together have a real serious talk about this. Personally, in a residential setting, under 3000SF, undercut doors are fine, but, it depends on things you and I cant see. Just like if I went and ask you about the last geothermal system I installed, while principle and theory are the same, each install is different...and the proper answer would have been to run the numbers again...altho, there was no issues with that install, using it as an example. Same with Mondays installation....19 10 ton Predator units..you are familiar with those? One controller...hell...maybe you are the guy that is coming down that is gonna program them...

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John wrote:

This is the biggest bach of BS I have seen, First off I am retired, second I have had no conversations about geo thermal installations with you.

CB you are full of words but are still in the learning stage of this trade. You give some good advice sometimes but you also give some bad, just learn to "listen".

I'm listening now, I'm all ears on how adding two returns to a return duct in this situation will be detrimental to the installation, go ahead and use technical terms, don't try and change the subject. Tell me. Keep on topic. Be specific.

John Williamson

Re: RETURN DUCT WORK

++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bswap had written first: Hello I have an older home, which has only two returns in the house one on southside and one on the northside. My questions is: one return passes below two bedrooms, can I tap into the return and use it as a return for the two rooms or will this cause a problem. Question 2: Can I place a vent on two sides of a wall and share the same return for two rooms or will this cause a problem. = [8]=VENT [8] WALL WITH PIPE 8 DUCT WORK [8] [8] [8]

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88888888888 +++++++++++++++++++ John wrote: Oh come on, this is crazy, the guy wants to add a couple of returns to the bedrooms from a return duct. He could just undercut the doors and accomplish the same thing. I guess if he undercut the doors someone would say he would have to hire someone come in and to do a "man D" because he undercut the door. Sorry but this answer is totally off the mark, if you want to debate the static pressure and duct design problems, have at it. John Williamson VA HVAC Master 40 yrs trade Mechanical Contractor Building Facility Controls Contractor Mechanical Designer (designed thousands of commercial, industrial, and residential ductwork systems) +++++++++++ CBHvac wrote

Good for you...seen guys like you screw up a single 2 ton install... Not trying to argue with you, but if you REALLY have designed that many systems, you could have also told him why it would be important to insure that not only was the returns sized correctly for proper airflow from each room, but why one leak could result in a mold issue as well. You being in VA, and having designed several hundred systems, hope your mold insurance is up to date. :) I just sat through several hours of guys that have more experience than you and me and half the other group together have a real serious talk about this. Personally, in a residential setting, under 3000SF, undercut doors are fine, but, it depends on things you and I cant see. Just like if I went and ask you about the last geothermal system I installed, while principle and theory are the same, each install is different...and the proper answer would have been to run the numbers again...altho, there was no issues with that install, using it as an example. Same with Mondays installation....19 10 ton Predator units..you are familiar with those? One controller...hell...maybe you are the guy that is coming down that is gonna program them...

+++++++++++++++++

John wrote:

This is the biggest bach of BS I have seen, First off I am retired, second I have had no conversations about geo thermal installations with you.

No..the biggest bunch of bullshit, lets use the words here so all can understand, is where a retired ME is trying to sound like all high and mighty. I eat guys like you for lunch. You are the guys that make it work on paper, we are the ones that fix your screwups in the field.

CB you are full of words but are still in the learning stage of this trade. You give some good advice sometimes but you also give some bad, just learn to "listen".

Learning stage? EVERY DAY is a learning stage for anyone that considers himself a professional, other than those that have MEs that think they could stop learning the day they got their first big job... Ten to one, my guys have more actual experence repairing so called MEs work, than you do actually making things work, and work correctly. If you want to argue, you have bitten off more than you can handle sir.

I'm listening now, I'm all ears on how adding two returns to a return duct in this situation will be detrimental to the installation, go ahead and use technical terms, don't try and change the subject. Tell me. Keep on topic. Be specific.

Use techinical terms....LOL...old timers...

And staying on topic, as an ME, you know what is means if a home sucks, or if it blows. And as an ME, you know how a unit operates, therefore, why is it so hard for you to understand that if he upsets the existing returns, IF the existing unit is set up correctly, that he can have comfort issues in other parts of the home???? This is not a 20 ton unit, nor is it a situation where he needs an ME...most MEs cant understand a Manual T, and Manual N they THINK they know.

My suggestion, Mr MechE, was due to several situations we have run into, were the homeowners have attempted to add, or modify units duct systems, and created instead, a mold machine. I suggest you pull your butt out of retirement and take a few courses on the subject matter, and then you will understand why I never suggest to a homeowner that they try to modify duct systems. I think you are still in the learning stages here. But thats ok...most people in our trade, (thats MY trade actually, since a ME isnt really considered to be more than an educated idiot by most) understand that to be as good as we are, (and we are, trust me, I would not have the client base I have that others would kill for) you never stop learning, and each day is a new learning experence.

Now, I answered your questions, and his as well. I think someone with your background can figure out why.

Waiting for your next batch of BS to come down the bandwidth pipeline.

John Williamson

Now that you have succeeded in scaring the H out of the poor guy, I suggest he go some where else and get good some good solid advice. He already got some from earlier posts, his main issue will likely be sound transition. Might use some "flex insulated" pipe to help sound deadening. I would not use the same take off for runs for both rooms, either in or out. I don't think his walls will bulge out or collapse in in either event.

Walt Conner

Re: RETURN DUCT WORK Group: alt.home.repair Date: Sun, Oct 19, 2003, 3:23pm From: snipped-for-privacy@carolinabreezehvac.com (CBHvac) "john williamson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-2178.public.lawson.webtv.net... Re: RETURN DUCT WORK Group: alt.home.repair Date: Sun, Oct 19, 2003, 9:20am From: snipped-for-privacy@carolinabreezehvac.com (CBHvac) "john williamson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-2178.public.lawson.webtv.net... Re: RETURN DUCT WORK (CBHvac) wrote: Best advice I can give you at this time, is that you need to have someone that understands what can happen if the static pressures are screwed up on your unit, and rooms, and how your comfort may be compromised to look it over. Part of our license continuing education today dealt with this very issue..if you don't know ManD, get someone who does.

++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bswap had written first: Hello I have an older home, which has only two returns in the house one on southside and one on the northside. My questions is: one return passes below two bedrooms, can I tap into the return and use it as a return for the two rooms or will this cause a problem. Question 2: Can I place a vent on two sides of a wall and share the same return for two rooms or will this cause a problem. =3D [8]=3DVENT [8] WALL WITH PIPE 8 DUCT WORK [8] [8] [8]

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88888888888 +++++++++++++++++++ John wrote: Oh come on, this is crazy, the guy wants to add a couple of returns to the bedrooms from a return duct. He could just undercut the doors and accomplish the same thing. I guess if he undercut the doors someone would say he would have to hire someone come in and to do a "man D" because he undercut the door. Sorry but this answer is totally off the mark, if you want to debate the static pressure and duct design problems, have at it. John Williamson VA HVAC Master 40 yrs trade Mechanical Contractor Building Facility Controls Contractor Mechanical Designer (designed thousands of commercial, industrial, and residential ductwork systems) +++++++++++ CBHvac wrote Good for you...seen guys like you screw up a single 2 ton install... Not trying to argue with you, but if you REALLY have designed that many systems, you could have also told him why it would be important to insure that not only was the returns sized correctly for proper airflow from each room, but why one leak could result in a mold issue as well. You being in VA, and having designed several hundred systems, hope your mold insurance is up to date. :) I just sat through several hours of guys that have more experience than you and me and half the other group together have a real serious talk about this. Personally, in a residential setting, under 3000SF, undercut doors are fine, but, it depends on things you and I cant see. Just like if I went and ask you about the last geothermal system I installed, while principle and theory are the same, each install is different...and the proper answer would have been to run the numbers again...altho, there was no issues with that install, using it as an example. Same with Mondays installation....19 10 ton Predator units..you are familiar with those? One controller...hell...maybe you are the guy that is coming down that is gonna program them... +++++++++++++++++ John wrote: This is the biggest bach of BS I have seen, First off I am retired, second I have had no conversations about geo thermal installations with you. No..the biggest bunch of bullshit, lets use the words here so all can understand, is where a retired ME is trying to sound like all high and mighty. I eat guys like you for lunch. You are the guys that make it work on paper, we are the ones that fix your screwups in the field. CB you are full of words but are still in the learning stage of this trade. You give some good advice sometimes but you also give some bad, just learn to "listen". Learning stage? EVERY DAY is a learning stage for anyone that considers himself a professional, other than those that have MEs that think they could stop learning the day they got their first big job... Ten to one, my guys have more actual experence repairing so called MEs work, than you do actually making things work, and work correctly. If you want to argue, you have bitten off more than you can handle sir. I'm listening now, I'm all ears on how adding two returns to a return duct in this situation will be detrimental to the installation, go ahead and use technical terms, don't try and change the subject. =A0 Tell me. Keep on topic. Be specific. Use techinical terms....LOL...old timers... And staying on topic, as an ME, you know what is means if a home sucks, or if it blows. And as an ME, you know how a unit operates, therefore, why is it so hard for you to understand that if he upsets the existing returns, IF the existing unit is set up correctly, that he can have comfort issues in other parts of the home???? This is not a 20 ton unit, nor is it a situation where he needs an ME...most MEs cant understand a Manual T, and Manual N they THINK they know. My suggestion, Mr MechE, was due to several situations we have run into, were the homeowners have attempted to add, or modify units duct systems, and created instead, a mold machine. I suggest you pull your butt out of retirement and take a few courses on the subject matter, and then you will understand why I never suggest to a homeowner that they try to modify duct systems. I think you are still in the learning stages here. But thats ok...most people in our trade, (thats MY trade actually, since a ME isnt really considered to be more than an educated idiot by most) understand that to be as good as we are, (and we are, trust me, I would not have the client base I have that others would kill for) you never stop learning, and each day is a new learning experence. Now, I answered your questions, and his as well. I think someone with your background can figure out why. Waiting for your next batch of BS to come down the bandwidth pipeline. John Williamson

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John wrote for the last time on this.

CB, you are a pice of work, make that a POS. Anyone that dissagrees with you , you attack them personally. First of all I am not an ME, I said Mechanical Designer, obvious you don't know the difference.

I'm going to let the NG have you, I can see it is impossible to get another view point out.

BYE John Williamson