I am fairly clueless about it, please forgive me if my questions are completely stupid.
-The current motor is 1075 rpm 4spd (direct drive), do I need to go with a
4spd motor replacement or a motor with smaller # of speeds will do. I cannot set the speed with the thermostat, so I presume thermostat sets the speed internally, based on its own built-in rules. I am guessing then that less then 4 speed motor will not work or will not be as efficient.
-The motor is 1/3 HP, does it make any sense to go with a slightly more powerful motor, i.e. 1/2 HP? Any advantages/disadvantages?
-The motor has an external capacitor 5/370. Can I get a replacement motor with different capacitor's parameters, assuming all the rest of the motor's parameters and dimensions are the same. Will it work or the motor must have exactly the same capacitors.
-What's a good and inexpensive place to buy the motor on the internet? What should I expect to pay for it: 115V, 1/3HP, 60HZ, 5.8 AMPS, 1075RMP 4SPD
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to get the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money in the long run.
I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor
Dont mess with it .. Im a homeowner, and smart enough to know I wouldnt mess with my 4 speed and possibly bad circutry, Or blow it all up and loose any warranty and circut board at my cost , Plus What caused the problem?
There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves. One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal with those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done successfully :-)
And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances, electronics etc, why not HVAC. Some of the jobs I would not risk and would indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite doable to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it back in.
So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it very much.
I am clueless as I said before, but I am not stupid. If I am not sure I do not do it. I am researching, reading, asking questions, learning etc. That's why I asked the question to this newsgroup and now thanks to you btw :-) I know that I should get same HP, RPM, Speeds etc as the original.
It has 6 wires, 2 for the capacitor and the rest for four different speeds. When I disconnected the motor I made sure to write down which wire represented what speed and where on the board it was connected. When I am getting a new motor, I'll make sure that the number of wires are the same and that it comes with instructions. I'll certainly make sure the shaft dimensions are the same as well.
We both know it is not $40 not even close, especially here in NJ. But it's more than just money of course, I truly enjoy doing things on my own, it's hard the first time around, but the more you do the easier it becomes (and the more you save).
I do appreciate your responses and information you provided. I do intend to follow your advice, I will probably go with a local electrical supply store like Grainger mentioned in another response and make sure they cross-reference my motor. Then I will run it by a local HVAC professional to double check that I am getting the right unit. Then I will try to install it on my own and if after all the preparation and research I get electricuted, I guess I do not deserve a better lot :-)
See, that's where your story gets blown out of the water. Not only are you going to suck up the free advice given (willingly) here, but you plan to somehow get a free opinion from your "local HVAC professional" for some more n/c guidance? What do you plan on doing, having him order you one, bring it into your home so you can get a look at it, and then cancelling the job on some bullshit reason?
As much as it pains me to agree with CBHvac (trust me, we have some "history") I do 100% in this situation. You're a cheapskate, period. You deserve everything bad that could possibly happen to you in this situation. Break a leg.
You asked questions...no question is stupid if you do not know the answer, however, you may not like the answer you get. Please keep that in mind.
If you have a 4 speed unit, you need 4 speeds. IF you have a dual speed, normally, you need 4 speeds. WHY? The speeds are there for a reason. Its a little thing called static pressure, and the motors have more than one speed for a reason. Even a heat pump, that the motor runs at the same speed regardless of heat or cool mode, will have at least 3 options.
Nope. Its all in the wiring, and how the unit you have, that no one on the net can see, and the duct design that you have, calls for.
It may not work right, thats correct.
Just explosion of the cage...the unit is rated for a particular load, at a particular RPM, using a particular HP...go higher, and the cage COULD spin faster than designed, and it COULD come apart...real fun at over 1000 RPM...
You can get anything you want, but, if you have to ask that, its time to stop...
There isnt a place on the net, in all honesty, that is a good place to buy a motor, unless you are a certified tech. Everyone else wants too much for crap motors. Your best bet, to insure a safe, and complete repair, while its not rocket science, IS to call a local competent, and licenced tech out to make sure that it is actually the motor you need...and insure that if it is, you do not end up like the guy over in Greensboro that was a crispy critter for trying to replace his motor. No..its not all doom and gloom...but, better safe than sorry, and in all honesty, from your questions, you could get hurt, particularly since the replacement motor MAY NOT be wired the same way.
I have a varity of motors, that fit that bill. They range in price from about $30 each to over $150. It depends on the application, design of the unit, and other factors that we simply can not see over the net.
We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..
HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a larger HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before. Then, where are you at?
No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For cool? For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?
Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or one less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size? Shaft length?
Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate ones do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor than your tech will. A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap, a fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as needed...and can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to save $40.
It COULD, but you and I both know, most people have changed a light bulb more than once...not so with a blower motor.
NP...if you are going to do it, simply be careful, dont make stupid mistakes...
6 wires? 4 speeds....hummmm.....can be done...but what you just described, is a 3 speed motor....
One wire for common, 3 for speeds, and 2 for the cap.... if you had ONE for the cap, with the cap being fed off a hot....I can see it...
needed...and
Umm....lets see...$40 labor on an easy to get at motor? Yea..I can see it, and thats why I said it. However, in NJ, no....LOL..I cant.
electricuted,
One word of warning....if you DO use Grainger...(shudder) do NOT get a Dayton motor....AOSmith or GE. Grainger is not the cheapest place to get one, and the Grainger here will NOT sell to a homeowner. Just be prepared.
Better have a large balance in your checkbook if you're going to get a GE motor. The people that will sell to HO's charge a lot more for GE's IF you can find them.
Not many try it themselves. The ones that do and suceed I have to congratulate. A tech can waltz in, pull the blower, remove the motor, clean the cage, reinstall a new, properly sized motor and cap, re-install the blower, and write the bill up in less than an hour in 90% of the cases.
You, on the other hand may waste a day or more finding the motor, going back and getting the capicator, figureing out how to remove the blower, knocking off a wheel weight off the wheel, re-install the possibly incorrect motor, re-install the blower, pull the motor to figure out where the cap goes, re-re-install the blower, wonder why the $%^%$ the thing vibrates, remeber about the wheel weight, spend another day plus trying to replace the weight at the correct place, finally giving up and looking for a new wheel, etc.etc. What's your time worth?
And many people mess things up, too. I charge more to fix something the HO tried first. Why? I have to figure out what the origonal problem was first.
What I find quite interesting is that you and quite a few other people alluded to the fact that I would get a better deal on the motor then if I buy it myselft. Do not get me wrong, it may well be but it goes totally contrary to my experience with contractors/repairs in any other area.
I have no doubts, that the contractor himself, buying wholesale will get a better deal on the motor (or anything else for that matter) then I ever could, but I do not have any reason to believe that he will pass the savings on to me. Just like everyone else he is in business to make a profit, he knows wholesale prices, he knows retail prices, he knows that HO in most cases have no idea about prices, but that he (HO), his wife, kids and dog are awfully hot without A/C. If this is not a perfect chance to overcharge, I do not know what is.
I just took my car to a dealer, was quoted list price for parts and 8 hours of labor. Went to an independent mechanic and got list prices for parts and
5 hours of labors. Bought absolutely the same parts (OEM, new) on the internet and paid about 40% of the list price.
And generally speaking you guys draw a very rosy picture of working with pros. They show up on time, fix it, charge for 1 hour of labor and below retail price for parts, do a perfect job and send you a christmas card.
How about an unfortunately more typical schenario - they schedule an appointment any time during the day and you have to be home all day to wait for them. They do not show up. When they eventually do show up a few days later having you wasted one more day, you are totally at their mercy. You already owe them money cause they charge $75 just to show up. They take 2 hours to diagnoze, then they claim that 5 parts need to be replaced. They also claim that the parts are very hard to get to, so the labor cost will be high. They also quote you the price of parts twice as high as what it should be. On top of it they say that they do not have the parts in stock and they would have to come back some other day.
You of course have no way of knowing whether they are being honest. What you do know is that if you do not accept their terms, they will charge you for 2 hours of labor and leave you with a mess. You would have to start all over with another contractor and chances are quite good that other contractor will not be any better then the first one.
When it is finally done, they leave you with a $600 bill, the motor is noisy and vibrating and they would not come out and fix it unless you pay for the labor again.
Obviously this is not personal and has nothing to do with HVAC people per se, the whole scenario is unfortunately way too common in any field - be it car repair, construction, remodelling or anything else. Even doctors and lawyers do it all the time to their customers. And the advice of getting good references/word of mouth etc is as old as it's often useless.
I replaced the blower motor on my unit last week. A few tips: #1 - Have a service tech come out and trouble-shoot the unit. It was well worth the $65 for him to do so.
I have been in the mechanical contracting business (plbg & hvac) for over 30 years. All the systems I've installed were new commercial units. I was never in the hvac service business. The tech's info was invaluable (as it could have been a relay, capacitor, etc.)
I killed the power to the unit, checked for assurance with a volt meter, and removed the entire squirrel cage assembly. I removed the motor, and replaced it with a Baldor motor. I completely cleaned the cage and assembly and allowed it to dry while I went back into the attic, cleaned both my drains, coil, and compartment area. I reassembled everything, connected the wiring as to the diagram furnished with the motor regarding RPM, etc. The unit tested out just fine and is operating normally. I also installed a new programmable thermostat.
The advice you were given was good advice, DOG. I'm not saying (as is anyone else) that you *can't* do it, but some background experience is a dangerous thing. A *lot* of experience is even better. If you proceed, then by all means recruit the help of a professional.
Happens all the time. Unless of course, you use Chris up in NY...now..hes illegal, so he has to sell you the motor for what he paid for it, or he becomes a contractor..and can get busted.
overcharge,
Ah...but most of my customers DO have an idea about what parts cost....retail. When they get a quote and the entire quote is under what they expected to pay...then something amazing happens.....they suddenly realize how bad the trade was getting. My electrician called the other day...needed a pool pump motor. He could not find one for under $200 for the particular model he had.
2 phone calls, and I had one for $90. His customer was getting prices of over $225 for the motor, and when Ray installed the motor for $160, everyone was happy..
Well...this is a no brainer...really. Your independent guy MIGHT be as good (assuming your dealer is up to date and really cares..I know...rare) as the dealer. The dealerships make most of their profit in the parts and service department...(percentage wise) and the idea is that you have a factory trained tech that knows your car better than the guy down the street. Thats the logic in the higher prices.....per hour anyway. Truth is simple....your local independent surely has less overhead, and does not need to charge as much per hour to remain open and in biz. Having been in the automotive industry (even today in a small way) all my life, thats the cold hard facts there. Most independents I know are pretty good. There are good and bad in all trades...every one...its what you feel comfortable with.
Some do...we do....the one hour labor thing...depends. Keep in mind...if that was a VS motor, it would be an EASY $500 to replace, and the markup would be about the same at THAT price if it was $200 for a standard replacement. Some are very expensive.
No call? No work. Period. If a service comapany is not there, there are others you can call. Some do not charge service or truck fees....sometimes it takes 2 ormore hours to locate the problem correctly. There are times, when there is a problem that you MUST be 100% sure that all the bases are covered, or else you will be back again in short order. Sometimes, 5 parts DO need to be replaced...that Variable speed motor I was talking about.....motor goes, you might need a controller too....and thats not cheap either...its not always the tech trying to make a buck...its the way things are done...in the unit, that require such a pain in the ass troubleshooting techneque and parts.
3 words..
State Licence Board.
True, and this is why you are starting to see a huge swing of self policing in the trades.
Umm...3 words...
State Licencing Board.
Of course not...and you know..there are times when as a contractor, you wonder why you cant prescreen customers from time to time too...
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.