Recessed Lights Selection

[MiamiCuse]

I have been reading recessed light buyer's guide online and the more I read it the more confusing I get.

I understand the difference between IC and NON-IC housing. I will be getting IC housing as I am not 100% sure someone will not lay insulation over the housing at a later point in the project, seems I would sleep better at night with IC.

As far as housing sizes, that seems straight forward with the guideline of using 6" if 6' apart, 5" if 5' apart...that's not a problem. But isn't the lamp used a factor too? Wouldn't a 5" housing with a 75W lamp separated 5' apart be brighter than a 6" housing with 60W lamps separated 6' apart?

and trim selection puzzles me. The reflector and baffle etc...I understand some special lighting requirements like wall wash or angled or shower trim, focused task lighting etc...but for basicl, general lighting, what is the brightest? reflective (the ones with a mirror looking lining inside), white baffle or open? I think reflective would give the highest lumen correct? Baffle basically absorbs the light? like making it into a vertical stream is this the net effect? What about open trim?

I am just totally confused on the trims because two trims seemingly the same can be $5.00 or $35.00.

I also noticed some "generic trims". For example Juno has Juno trims for Juno housing, Halo has the same, but I noticed some generic trims rated to be "compatible" with Juno, Halo, Elco...are those any good or stay away?

Thanks,

MC

[HeyBub]

Not really a consideration. When sleeping at night, the lights will probably be OFF.

[Pete C.]

It's not really a safety issue. Non-IC housings still have a high temp limit switch and if covered with insulation or over lamped they will blink on and off, not start a fire.

No, the spacing is based on beam angles, not total lumens. Wider housings have wider beam angles and therefore can be placed wider apart and still get the beam patterns to overlap properly.

It depends on the lamp used. If you use a reflector lamp a black baffle is fine, but if you use an "A" type lamp a white or reflective baffle will be more efficient by directing more light out of the fixture.

We're all baffled by the trim pricing. I think it's like ink jet printers, give away the printer, make a killing on the ink, or in this case, give away the fixture and make a killing on the trim.

I'd expect you take your chances with the generics. If you can carefully inspect them you may be ok. Since these things are expected to last a long time in a fairly hot environment, if the materials and finishes are low quality they may fail in a short time.

[MiamiCuse]

Thanks for the advise, I have a better idea what to look for now.

[John Grabowski]

*The 5010 trim is for the H5 cans and according to the catalog can handle 65 watt BR30, 75 watt R30 and 75 watt PAR 30 bulbs.

The lip of the housing should be flush with the finished ceiling. The H7 can adjusts to thicker ceilings if necessary, but comes factory set at 1/2".

[RBM]

Just to clarify: with the frame bracket legs flush with the bottom of the beam, the rim of the housing, which sticks down1/2",will sit flush with the bottom of the sheetrock.

John, Halo used to make a funky 5" trim, unlike the 7" or the 4". Is it still that way? I can't tell from the pictures in the catalog

[John Grabowski]

*I rarely use the 5" cans. Mostly the H7 and sometimes the H99. From the catalog the 5010 looks similar to the 993 trim for the H99. These have a thicker surface ring then what is available for the H7

[RBM]

I really like the 993 trim, if you can get away with an R20. The last time I went to use the 5" , it had a really strange socket bracket, with I didn't like at all. Ever since ,I've just gone to the Lightolier for that size. IMO the Halo 7" with the variety of frame kits, is the most versatile thing to use

[John Grabowski]

*I Agree. Using the H7 can gives you a wide range of bulb possibilities. They even have an MR 16 adapter for the H7. Unlike the H99 where your choice is an R20 or a PAR 20.

[MiamiCuse]

I am using H7 in most of the living and family room areas. I need about 50 recessed lights but different areas call for different applications.

I think I need a smaller size in bedrooms and hallways.

Is there a trim like the 5010W of 993 that is a thicker ring for the H7?

[nmbexcuse]

Thanks John! I did not know H7 has a MR16 adapter. This is interesting.

I am trying to visualize whether H7 is too big a housing to use in a hallway that is 36" wide.

[nmbexcuse]

Pete, I have not even wired the under cabinet lights yet. I am thinking I don't need them.

My kitchen has three walls. One wall has two 36" wide floor to ceiling pantry so no under cabinet lights there. Although your idea of placing lights at the door makes me wonder if I should position the recessed lights at the pantry door instead of spacing them out in relation to the ceiling space. Seems more logical to position them based on usage...need to think.

The other wall has top cabinets, but most of it taken up by range hood and refrigerator and part of the top we are doing open shelves.

The third wall is where the sink & dishwasher are and probably where most food prep happens. However, no top cabinets there because there is a big wide window takes up the entire width of the 12' counter. So I am planning on four recessed lights over that counter. Initially I was going to space them 1.5', 3', 3', 3', 1.5' evenly. However due to ceiling joist and electrical conduit interference, I had to space them differently, and somewhat unevenly, from the wall 1'4", then 2'4", then 3'8", then 2'4", then 1', which is more or less centered on the window and not so much the wall. I am not sure this is a visually pleasing spacing, so my other option is to simply mount electrical boxes there and then use pendants but short ones that ends right above the top edge of the wide windows which is located about 18" below the ceiling.

[RBM]

Thanks John! I did not know H7 has a MR16 adapter. This is interesting.

I am trying to visualize whether H7 is too big a housing to use in a hallway that is 36" wide.

In a hallway, my favorite is the Halo 993 that John was talking about earlier. The frame for the 993 uses a fixed socket and the 50 watt R20 lamp sits pretty high in the fixture, but I like to use a 1" porcelain extension socket, which brings the lamp close to the plane of the ceiling, giving a much wider beam of light, and they look good, cause they're so small

[John Grabowski]

Thanks John! I did not know H7 has a MR16 adapter. This is interesting.

I am trying to visualize whether H7 is too big a housing to use in a hallway that is 36" wide.

*Think about the light that you want, not about how the fixture will look. These are not chandeliers we are talking about. The lights are recessed into the ceiling. For a 36" wide hallway an H99 could suffice and be very dramatic. If you plan to put paintings or photographs on the hall walls, then go with an H7 which will have a wider beam of light. With a 4" can you will not get any light on the walls. Using the extensions that RBM suggested will enable the bulb to spread its light a little more, but 50 watts in a PAR20 bulb can only do so much.

The MR16 trims for the H7 housing are #'s1412, 1416, 1417, 1479 and 1450. The transformer is part of the trim. There is also a 1475 trim which uses a

50 watt, 12 volt, PAR36 bulb.

[nmbexcuse]

It's strange that for 4" they have the 993 trim, for 5" they have the

5010 trim, but for 6" they don't have one that's like that.

[RBM]

It's strange that for 4" they have the 993 trim, for 5" they have the

5010 trim, but for 6" they don't have one that's like that.

The 6" standard is 410, you're right, all three are different from one another. Lightolier has much more standardized frames and trims, but they have their issues as well