Question about routing water line

[Eigenvector]

I'm thinking that at this point I'll need a plumber to do this, but wanted to toss this idea out first.

I'm trying to replace the galvanized hot water pipe to my kitchen - it's rusted shut as galvanized is want to do over time. Anyways, the pipe is in the crawlspace, elbows into the sill plate, elbows vertical in the wall, then elbows out of the wall inside the sink cabinet. The sill plate hole is filled with concrete.

I just can't see myself getting that pipe out of there without major construction. The best bet I have is to cut the pipe at the sill plate then pull it out of the wall under the cabinet. Maybe do-able but I'll never be able to run the new pipe using that same route. I just can't see it happening. So here's what I was wondering. Would it be kosher to simply drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet, through the underlayment and avoid all those nasty joints? That way it's a simple down, elbow to the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with bringing in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it myself so long as it's feasible.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Kosher or not, it sound sensible. I ass-u-me you are putting in either copper or PEX. That's what I'd do.

[Steve Barker]

Perfectly fine what you suggest. I wouldn't, and haven't in several cases, remove ANY of the old stuff. Just leave it there.

[Sacramento Dave]

Sounds like an easy plan simple and direct, but I would consider removing as much of the old galvi as you can sounds like you ready for a re-pipe.

[Eigenvector]

Well that's answers that. I just need to get me a 6" long drill bit and go for it then. I assume it's customary to cut the hole slightly overbore for the copper pipe run. I used to be a big pusher for PEX, until I started working with it, it's cheap and easy to work with, but when it comes to mounting hardware to it the lack of rigidity really does make it difficult to secure.

[Deke]

I'd get a 12 inch drill, not a 6 inch.

[dreamchaser]

If you buy the right valves for the pex, you can fasten the valve to hold it rigid. I'm a firm believer in pex pipe. It withstands freezing better then anything else you will put back in and it's a heck of a lot easier to work with. If you don't use pex, I think your next best bet is cpvc. I wouldn't waste a minute with going back with galvanized or copper. Insulate the cpvc in the crawl space if you live above the North Carolina latitude.

Foam the hole you drill , from the crawl space/underside so critters don't get up in the bottom of your cabinet, once you get the pipe back in.

Galvanized pipe sucks for water lines. I had them in my old house in Texas. My new house in NC is pex all the way.

[Eigenvector]

I don't have any major heartburn with PEX, other than it's hard to work with around fittings.

One of the weaknesses AND strengths of metal piping is that it is rigid. It's a weakness in my mind because you have to be exact with your measurments and cuts. It's a strength because it supplies a way for you to lever it and hold it in position.

With PEX I found at least, was that for instance at a sink fitting the PEX line just kind of hung out in the open - so that the connection to the sink fitting was swaying and bending and generally looked sloppy and unsecure. Now you can secure that by getting a PEX to pipe connection but again because PEX doesn't provide any leverage because it isn't rigid, if the pipe connection isn't solid enough you have no way to tighten it - the PEX will simply torque with your wrench. Now if it's a solder joint, you'd have to dissasemble the PEX to fix a bad joint - otherwise your torch would melt the PEX.

Now for long runs it looks very attractive to me - for instance in my crawlspace I have a straight 20' run to the water heater. No reason to buy a whole bunch of expensive copper pipe if I can use 5 bucks of PEX line straight to the heater. I think metal pipe is good for fixture fittings, but for long runs PEX is more cost effective.

[BobK207]

right valves for the pex, you can fasten the valve to

At terminations, I think drop ear elbows would be the best choice....along with bend supports

or maybe

cheers Bob

[Thomas Horne]

In the colder latitudes the routing you suggest is now required. The plumbing code often forbids running water pipe in outside walls in colder climates now.

-- Tom Horne

[buffalobill]

Buffalo ny: you will enjoy the results of upgrading from low water flow providing you have your water main bringing in great water flow to the basement washtubs. no S traps for drains. no water pipes allowed in outside walls. check your local permit office to see what's allowed or required to be used in your area. we prefer over sized supply lines [one inch not 3/4" main] and water meters at replacement time, to better enjoy full water flow at each fixture.

[Eigenvector]

I have plenty of those already, I don't find they hold very well and the nail holes they provide are ridiculously small. Plus with PEX you have to make sure that the line can move - at least in the hot water lines I've run it will grow and shrink by 3 inches over 10 feet plus it will twist and turn unpredictably. With that much movement you almost don't want to secure it on either end for fear of putting too much pressure on the crimp, even though the middle will snake around to compensate. Possibly just a lack of confidence on my part in how durable PEX connections are.

A flange head isn't a bad idea. I might try that. I don't like the fact that most of the PEX solutions are online only - there's something to be said about touching something before buying.

I'm leary of using one of those near the plastic tubing - the pipe gets pretty hot during soldering and if you have to fix a bad solder joint, the PEX will have to come off or you risk having the same problem that Polybutalene has. But if you cut the PEX, you had better have more slack to pick up or you'll have to re-run the entire length from the last joint or insert a second joint with a coupling.

Yeah yeah I know, gripe gripe gripe, bitch bitch moan. The more I get into my house the more I realize the benefits of using proven technology over up and coming ways. I find myself becoming far more conservative in what I'm willing to risk.

[Eigenvector]

Well at any rate I replaced the line. I used PEX for the run and I am super glad that I did. 1) I'm still pretty dangerous with a propane torch and my soldering skills frankly suck right now (I'm working on that). 2) The access to the space was terrible. Even if it wasn't for the monstrous spiders stalking the corners and hideous undead guarding the treasure chests - oops sorry I'm confusing the crawlspace for a D&D dungeon. Anyway the access to terrible and the first hole I drilled just wasn't going to work - smack right up against the joist between the floor and the foundation. So I drilled again and got a good spot this time. Sucks because I have to patch a hole in my cabinet - but at least I wasn't fussing around with copper pipe setting the house on fire. I need to get a longer flex hose for the faucet connector but overall it's pretty damn good. Nice water flow instead of that trickle I was living with. Still won't have good pressure until the entire cold and hot water lines are replaced, but for now it works.