PSA: The only way to compare glyphosate is by the AE (not by the percentage)

Top tip - add some Dawn dish liquid, helps wit adhesion to weeds.

Hi blank verse,

Thanks for that pro tip about adding a common household surfactant. I looked that up, and you're right. But not too much. Just enough. And, apparently, it matters which concentration we started with.

Apparently, the Dawn helps the cheaper products better but not for the reason we might think. The reason is they use different surfactants.

Ranger Pro Concentrate $66.50/2.5gal, made by Monsanto (now Bayer) 41% glyphosate IPA salt (EPA Reg. 524-517)

Roundup Pro Concentrate $72.98/2.5gal, made by Monsanto (now Bayer) 50.2% glyphosate IPA salt (EPA Reg. 524-529)

Roundup Pro Max $69.98/1.67gal, made by Monsanto (now Bayer) 48.7% glyphosate K+ salt (EPA Reg. 524-579)

Apparently 1 teaspoon (but never more than 1 tablespoon) per gallon of "Dawn" dish detergent can make up for some of the surfactant issues. 1 teaspoon per gallon dish detergent (about 0.5% v/v)

Apparently it works better on the Ranger Pro Concentrate though. Ranger Pro Concentrate + Dawn ==> works slightly better as a wetting agent Roundup Pro Concentrate + Dawn ==> apparently doesn't change much Roundup Pro Max + Dawn ==> apparently makes the wetting a bit worse

Dawn is an anionic detergent while the surfactants in the various glyphosate products typically use non-ionic ethoxylated surfactants.

Also note that none of the surfactants or salts matter for cut and spray on brooms since that bypasses the waxy green leafy foliage altogether.

Hi Governor Gavin NewScam,

It's nice to see California involved in EPA regulations, where the California EPA number is the same as other states, but with AA appended.

Ranger Pro Concentrate $66.50 41% glyphosate IPA salt (EPA Reg. 524-517-AA)

Roundup Pro Concentrate $72.98 50.2% glyphosate IPA salt (EPA Reg. 524-529-AA)

Roundup Pro Max $69.98 48.7% glyphosate K+ salt (EPA Reg. 524-579-AA)

It turns out that in California, it's up to a $1K fine per offense if you use the stuff not 'as directed' (e.g., if you spray your mailbox instead of your weeds) for a homeowner and $25K per offense for the professionals.

Thanks to you. :)

In terms of dollars per acid equivalent (pre tax & pre shipping): Roundup Pro Concentrate (529) = $7.89/lb AE (best AE value) Ranger Pro Concentrate (517) = $8.87/lb AE (better AE value) Roundup Pro Max (579) = $10.48/lb AE (good AE value)

But as "blank verse" noted, they each use a different surfactant, where adding Dawn at 1tsp per gallon (about 0.5% v/v) only helps the 579 when applied to leaves (it doesn't help any of them when applied to stumps).

As a simple summary (if we ignore tax & shipping), here's the basic 'value' calculation per acid equivalent (plus "blank verse's" surfactant advice).

Ranger Pro Concentrate $66.50/2.5 gal ($8.87/# acid equivalent) 41% glyphosate IPA salt (EPA Reg. 524-517) by Monsanto/Bayer EPA 524-517 = 41.0% IPA salt, 4#/gal IPA salt, 3.0#/gal AE Total glyphosate acid equivalent per jug: 7.5# Add 0.5% v/v Dawn (about 1 tsp per gallon, but no more than 1 tblsp)

Roundup Pro Concentrate $72.98/2.5 gal ($7.89/# acid equivalent) 50.2% glyphosate IPA salt (EPA Reg. 524-529) by Monsanto/Bayer EPA 524-529 = 50.2% IPA salt, 5#/gal IPA salt, 3.7#/gal AE Total glyphosate acid equivalent per jug: 9.25# Adding dish detergent apparently won't help or hurt the wetting agent

Roundup Pro Max $69.98/1.67 gal ($10.48/# acid equivalent) 48.7% glyphosate K+ salt (EPA Reg. 524-579) by Monsanto/Bayer EPA 524-579 = 48.7% K+ salt, 5.5#/gal K+ salt, 4.0#/gal AE Total glyphosate acid equivalent per jug: 6.68# Adding dish detergent apparently lessens the wetting agent activity

At those prices, ignoring there are salt & surfactant differences, the better value is the Roundup Pro Concentrate by about 11% to 25%.

Roundup Pro is ~11 percent cheaper than Ranger Pro per pound AE Roundup Pro is ~25 percent cheaper than Pro Max per pound AE

Does anyone on this ng have better prices for those three products?

Apparently, if we have hard water (which I do have), it's sometimes recommended to add ammonium sulfate to glyphosate mixes when the hardness exceeds around 250ppm calcium carbonate (my fill water is about

Looking it up, AMS does two things, apparently, as an adjuvant: 1. AMS keeps glyphosate from being tied up by hard-water minerals 2. And AMS provides ammonium ions that help glyphosate cross the leaf cuticle more effectively.

Interesting, since AMS degrades long-term storage, zero glyphosate solutions come with AMS premixed, but it's a common recommendation.

In the "farmprogress" link below, it suggests "adding AMS at a rate of

Home Depot sells fertilizer grade, apparently, at $20.97/15 pound bag.

Tractor Supply might have the spray grade though but I found this spray grade online for 51 pounds for $19.99 (prior to tax & shipping).

REFERENCES:

a tablespoon or so of diesel fuel works wonders too

I looked that up and while it's often mentioned, there's less information about how diesel might help with glyphosate based herbicides.

Certainly Google found diesel used in oil-soluble herbicides, but glyphosate is not oil soluble, and diesel apparently is not a surfactant so it doesn't improve absorption (as far as I could find out from Google).

There was a bit of cut-stump lore of mixing diesel with triclopyr ester (which is oil soluble) so diesel helps it penetrate the bark.

Diesel works as a penetrant and sticker, ensuring the herbicide stays on the plant, often used in basal bark applications and for controlling brush or vine stumps. It also works on waxy leaf plants - like poison ivy. It makes a "glue" that can foul pumps - which helps it stick to leaves and also helps if it rains after it is sprayed. It emulsifies with the water based spray.