Do propane refrigerators need to be vented outside? I have just bought a cabin with a Consul 17 cubic foot fridge/freezer.
The burner needed cleaning, as it smelled very very rich. It had a lot of soot. When I put it back together, the diffuser fell down into the exhaust pipe, and I didn't notice it.
When it started smelling again, I checked it, and cleaned it again.
Tell me of your experiences with propane appliances in an enclosed space. I know they can be lethal, but this has a very small burner. Nothing in the instructions mentioned outside venting.
As well with my instructions. NO mention of venting. A Google check with a propane refrigerator manufacturer's FAQs says "if it is functioning properly", it needs no venting.
I know that carbon monoxide is bad stuff, so, just wanted to ask people about their experiences.
Already got the top of the line Kidde. Has the digital readout, and the memory button. If anyone is considering buying a CO detector, BUY THE ONE WITH THE READOUT AND THE MEMORY.
The other kind goes off when the levels are at dangerously high levels. The display units tell you what the reading is RIGHT NOW, and with a push of a button, tell you what the highest reading is from the last time you reset.
No good if it goes off after you are unconscious ..................
IIRC, the flame boils the ammonia, it condenses, and as it does, cools, hence, cooling. I know the large ice producing companies around the turn of the century were ammonia powered. NO moving parts.
I don't know. If you are so smart, why don't you post the answer instead of just coming up with contentious posts? Explain it to us stupid unwashed rabble.
An ammonia refrigerator has a flame and ammonia. I don't really understand how it works, only that it does. A flame would seem to boil a liquid, and a condensing coil would seem to condense that vapor. Just an observation by this untrained person.
If things give off heat when they condense, why isn't rain hot? Just a question from this stupid person who obviously doesn't understand and know as much as you.
I was puzzled when I looked at the manual, and there was no mention of venting. Venting would not really be a problem, just some Rube Goldberg (am I dating myself?) plumbing of flues. I would have to drill a rather large hole through six inches of solid wood exterior wall, but really, not a big job to vent the thing.
Just seeking understanding before I go hacking and cutting.
On 09/06/05 09:54 pm Charlie S. tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural area of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia as the refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.
IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just as the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.
Don't know a thing about propane refrigerators. However, if you feel uncomfortable about it not being vented. I'd vent it. The value of peace of mind might exceed the cost of your worry. A good friend of mine from college lost a cousin due to a gas leak. He slept through the ordeal. I think it was propane he was using somewhere in his house. Sorry, don't remember the specifics.
Propane (actually ammonia cycle) refrigerators are common on RV's, so check RV sites on the internet. Anything with a flame needs a vent. A standard feature is to have the burner in a separate space from the actual cold space. Built in that way or the unit is on rollers and just backs into a space that is vented to the outside. Or, the unit just sits in a highly vented space such as a screened porch.
I just prefer when people explain things plainly and briefly. I am one year postaccident on a traumatic brain injury, and my thinking is not what it used to be.
Ergo, I ask questions, and hope that the reader can provide brief plain answers instead of sending one to a huge website where the needed data is buried in layers of advertisements. This was not the case in your citing. The site you sent me to explained it right out front. Not so in many cases. And then, there is the mail one gets when visiting random Google hits.
Plain questions only require plain answers. Not contentious argumentative superiority complex rhetoric.
On Tue 06 Sep 2005 09:53:02p, SteveB wrote in alt.home.repair:
Probably more than you wanted to know:
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As a side note, some of the earliest commercial air conditioning systems used ammonia, the heat usually being supplied by a natural gas burner. These systems pre-dated sykstems uning Freon. These were generally rather large systems, installed in office buildings and theaters.
When I was a kid, my dad worked in an office building cooled by such a system. In the area of the actual equipment in the basement, there were often small leaks and one could faintly smell the ammonia.
The earliest refrigerators also used ammonia (Freon hadn't been invented yet). Many were fueled by natural gas. However, kerosene and butane (pre- dating propane) adaptations were also common in rural areas without electric power.
Even today, especially in Amish areas and other rural areas without electricity, kerosene refrigerators are used by many people.
These systems are virtually silent, although you might occasionally here a sound similar to a percolator. There is no motor or compressor. They also do a very good job of cooling and freezing.
Prices are high, most likely, because of the relatively low production compared to traditional refrigerators.
My understanding of propane (absorption) refrigerators is that they contain a mixture of ammonia and water. The mixture is heated and the ammonia vaporizes. As the vaporization occurs the result is expanding gas. Expanding gases absorb heat, hence the name. This is easily demonstrated by using any spray can or letting the air out of a tire or tank of compressed gas/air. You can feel the can/tank get colder. If you let the air out of a SCUBA tank ice will form on the valve.
I would not use one without venting. Although there is a small flame there will still be some CO present. Besides that you will get some soot. There is probably a baffle inside the flue or chimney that needs to be able to move freely. Soot can also build up inside the chimney and it should be cleaned occasionally, perhaps once a year. It is also VERY important that the coils be cleaned and free of dust and goop. The refrigerator will cool much more effeciently with clean coils. Also keep your burner clean and make sure it has a good-looking blue flame. If it is all clean and working properly you will have less soot and probably less CO.
One of the beauties of the RV type units is that they also contain heating coils that operate from 12 VDC or 120VAC or both. If you run out of propane you can hook it up temporarily to a battery or to an AC supply. The older ones (probably built before the 90's) needed no connections other than propane but the newer ones require a 12VDC source to operate. I think the older ones are better.
I forgot to mention that it must be level. You can get an omnidirectional bubble level from an RV store for about a dollar or so. Put it inside the (clean, frost-free) freezer compartment and check it.
Look up "absorbtion cycle" (I never really understood this one when I took Thermodynamics in college.) They typically run on ammonia and water, or water and litium bromide.
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