Your email could be hacked even from inside your computer if you click
on the right (wrong?) link. You could be hacked by a man in the middle
attack. You could get your account stolen or read by social engineering.
You could get your account read or stolen by a password hack. And my
guess is that you employ no encryption.
There's no extra safety in POP.
The protocol is irrelevant, it's where the mail is stored.
You must have a really stupid browser if it allows a server to access your email data.
Doesn't happen. Email hacks happen to things like Yahoo where millions of people store their emails in one place, and where anyone can access it freely if they have the password. Nobody can get the emails off your computer, even with your password.
That only allows them to read any emails you've not yet downloaded.
A recent study found that the average Aussie walks about 900 miles a year.
Another study found that Aussies drink, on average, 22 gallons of alcohol a year.
| Your email could be hacked even from inside your computer if you click
| on the right (wrong?) link.
That's true, but "real" email is different. First,
it's not free, so there's some expectation of
service. It's also stored on your computer and
using POP3 exclusively with real email means
your email on the server is deleted when you
download it. Yes, your computer can
be hacked. But freebie online services present
other risks. This issue is a good example.
There's also the issue of not really owning
your email. Court cases have defined your email
as owned by the service. (They don't subpoena
you for your email. They subpoena Yahoo, Google,
Hotmail, or whatever.) You also sacrifice privacy
in that most freebie webmail providers claim the
right to read your email for the purpose of targetted
ads. Freebie webmail is not your email, any more
than freebie Facebook pages are yours to customize
as you like.
As the geeks like to say, if you're not paying
for the service then you're the product.
What service do you get that I don't get from free Gmail?
Your email is stored on your providers server while it's waiting
(hours?) for you to download it. Could be hacked then. Also your email
goes through many servers during the trip to its destination. Could be
I find server email storage a benefit. My saved emails can be accessed
from any of my devices (phone, tablets, PCs, etc). Any change (reading,
deleting, drafts, etc) I make on one is reflected to all.
A warrant can also be served at your house. And they will take your
computer and all those locally stored emails.
Google *computers* do read my email for ad placement. Just like your
ISP's computer (server) reads your email for processing. A computer
reading my email doesn't bother me much...as long as there
are no humans looking over its shoulder.
If you send me an email then it's owned by Google?? 8-O
That's true. But it doesn't make the service bad. Do you use encryption?
Might help with the hackers. Google provides it for free... ;)
| > That's true, but "real" email is different. First, it's not free, so
| > there's some expectation of service.
| What service do you get that I don't get from free Gmail?
If I have a problem I can contact a person. I'm
paying for service. They provide email, they don't
show me ads, and they don't claim the right to
read my email or store my email for their own purposes.
Their POP3 service is exactly that. POP3 should not
leave email on the server, but Google considers
your email to be as much their property as yours.
They keep copies. It was revealed years ago that
if you delete your email from GMail it only deletes
your access to it. In other words, it's the diference
between me getting a product I pay for and you
getting whatever Google thinks will keep you around
while providing them the most profit.
| > It's also stored on your computer and using POP3 exclusively with
| > real email means your email on the server is deleted when you
| > download it.
| Your email is stored on your providers server while it's waiting
| (hours?) for you to download it. Could be hacked then. Also your email
| goes through many servers during the trip to its destination. Could be
| hacked then.
Yes. Everything's hackable. That wasn't the point.
The point is that my email is mine and I can delete
it from the server. You can't. (See above.)
| > Yes, your computer can be hacked. But freebie online services
| > present other risks. This issue is a good example.
| I find server email storage a benefit. My saved emails can be accessed
| from any of my devices (phone, tablets, PCs, etc). Any change (reading,
| deleting, drafts, etc) I make on one is reflected to all.
That's one of the possible benefits of webmail.
It's also one of the risks. But freebie webmail
doesn't give you the choice.
| > There's also the issue of not really owning your email. Court cases
| > have defined your email as owned by the service. (They don't
| > subpoena you for your email. They subpoena Yahoo, Google, Hotmail, or
| > whatever.)
| A warrant can also be served at your house. And they will take your
| computer and all those locally stored emails.
Yes, of course. There are all sorts of situations
where you could be subject to law enforcement actions.
So what? You keep missing the point. *You don't
own your GMail. Google does.*
| > You also sacrifice privacy in that most freebie webmail providers
| > claim the right to read your email for the purpose of targetted ads.
| Google *computers* do read my email for ad placement. Just like your
| ISP's computer (server) reads your email for processing. A computer
| reading my email doesn't bother me much...as long as there
| are no humans looking over its shoulder.
That's your choice. They claim the right to read it.
I don't see any reason to trust them. It's like coming
home to find a man in my house and he says, "Oh,
don't worry. I'm just a salesman. I only broke in to
see how you live so I can sell you stuff." Call me
crazy, but I just can't see trusting the word or integrity
of that man.
You've expressed that you like GMail and don't
have any problem with anything they do. Presumably
you think it's a good deal to trade your rights to
save the price of a cup of coffee. That's up to you.
You asked what was different between freebie webmail
and real email. I explained it. For some of us the
difference matters. Personally I have my domain
email auto-delete junk webmail and don't correspond
any more than necessary with friends and family who
use it. I haven't agreed to let Googlites or Yahooans
read and store my personal correspondence.
Free Gmail has no live person to contact, that's true. But there is
ample online help. Do you have such problems with your service that you
need a live person?
Gmail's POP service leaves email on the server because it has to
synchronize with other devices that use protocols that need that email
on the server.
I stick with Gmail because I get good service. Such as having Two-step
verification for better security. Does your provider have it?
"You have control over your data. We provide you with tools to delete
and export your data so that you can take your data with you at any
time, use external services in conjunction with Google Apps, or stop
using our services altogether."
| > *You don't own your GMail. Google does.*
| "You have control over your data. We provide you with tools to delete
| and export your data so that you can take your data with you at any
| time, use external services in conjunction with Google Apps, or stop
| using our services altogether."
Yes. They lie. Apparently you didn't read the link
that you've removed from your response. (Nor did
you fully read my explanation about "deleting"
Google also lied about collecting wifi data from
houses with their streetview cars. Google is no longer
a brilliant search engine run by two cute kids. It's a
publicly traded advertising company, run by a man
who's publicly stated that if you think you need privacy
then maybe you're doing something you shouldn't
be doing. It's also, by far, the most widespread
spyware operation on the Internet, with ads, fonts,
analytics, or other Google links on nearly every
| > Personally I have my domain email auto-delete junk webmail and don't
| > correspond any more than necessary with friends and family who use
| > it. I haven't agreed to let Googlites or Yahooans read and store my
| > personal correspondence.
| Oh my. A bit paranoid I see...
It's not a matter of paranoia. It's a sense of
common decency. People using freebie webmail
have allowed commercial companies to own
their private correspondence, in exchange for
convenience, and/or because they don't understand
how to set up email on their computer and/or to
save a few cents. I consider that to be a bad
precedent socially. Commercial companies shouldn't
own the resources of the citizenry. Worse, the
webmail users' laziness means that I unwillingly share
my correspondence with the same companies.
You see paranoia because you don't understand
why anyone would value anything above
convenience. You don't think of yourself as a citizen.
You're a "consumer". Maybe you'd be happy to have
Alka Seltzer ads on your car if the company would
give you a coupon for a free cup of coffee? I find
that undignified, as well as being an inappropriate
commercialization of the public sphere. If you don't
understand that view then I'm not sure I could explain
There's also a separate issue here that's worth
noting, which has nothing to do with the argument
over freebie webmail: Very popular services can
be more risky. Adobe Flash, Adobe Acrobat Reader
browser plugin, freebie webmail, Skype, Wordpress
websites.... Anything used by a large percentage of
people is an attractive target. Flash gets targetted
because it's buggy, but also because it's ubiquitous.
Wordpress sites get hacked because there are lots
of them and the bugs in Wordpress tools have been
many. So the payoff for hacking them can be big.
Yahoo email is a similar case. It's a very big target.
So it's a good idea to avoid the popular brand when
| > Very popular services can
| > be more risky. Adobe Flash, Adobe Acrobat Reader
| > browser plugin, freebie webmail, Skype, Wordpress
| > websites.... Anything used by a large percentage of
| > people is an attractive target. Flash gets targetted
| > because it's buggy, but also because it's ubiquitous.
| > Wordpress sites get hacked because there are lots
| > of them and the bugs in Wordpress tools have been
| > many. So the payoff for hacking them can be big.
| > Yahoo email is a similar case. It's a very big target.
| > So it's a good idea to avoid the popular brand when
| > possible.
| That's quite a list. No paranoia though, huh... ;)
Those are the most common attack "vectors". If I
remember correctly, Flash is currently #1. Wordpress
is preferred for driveby installing malware because
Wordpress sites are often easy to compromise. (I
get hackers several times a day at my own site. They
try various GET requests that they know might be
vulnerable, like wp-login.php, /wp-admin/...,
wp/content/..., etc. They just travel the Web doing
that, looking for unlocked doors.
I saw an apropos article in the NYT today. It seems
Yahoo has had a number of serious security breaches
under Marissa Mayer. She didn't want to risk that more
people might leave the email service due to inconvenient
security measures. And measures like encryption that
would prevent even Yahoo from reading your email would
have thwarted their targetted ad spyware. So they were
hacked repeatedly. The pro-Mayer crowd called the security
people the Paranoids. Eventually most of the Paranoids
were hired away by other companies.
Paranoid and tinfoil hat namecalling is almost always
"the first refuge of the ostrich".
A little paranoia is good securitywise but too much is bad for user
experience. It's hard to know where to draw the line. I can't argue
against your choices for your experience, but they are just a tad too
much for mine. Only a tad though, and a very small tad at that, maybe
only half a tad. :)
Tue, 27 Sep 2016 03:09:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:
Uhh. No, contrary to some movies, not everything is 'hackable' in the
gaining unauthorized access in the digital world sense. You can
delete it from your server, but, depending on the server software
you're using, you might just be marking a spot on an index/table that
tells the software this is free space now and it can hold xxx bytes
worth of data, store something else there if it's within the range.
Until that happens, the 'contents' of your deleted email can most
likely, be recovered.
Encryption can prevent the snooping concerns you have. Google has
many a computer, but, I presently know of nothing that can 'crack'
properly implemented, PGP for example. If you do, feel free to share.
Hmm...So, you aren't running your own server? You're using a 3rd
party? if true, you only have their 'word' that nothing is snooping
on you. Blind trust, much?
MID: <nb7u27$crn$ email@example.com>
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
27 Sep 2016 01:59:05 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:
Er, No.. it doesn't. it's not like usenet. For example, I have an email
server package running on equipment sitting a few feet from where I am.
Any emails sent to it will be delivered right to it. Likewise, if I
want to send you something, my server is going to chat directly with
your email provider and drop it off in your mailbox. It doesn't work
like the post office, or, usenet for that matter. Due to the nature of
the protocols in use and the fact it has to 'ride the net', it's still
possible for man in the middle attacks of various kinds, but, we aren't
discussing that aspect.
MID: <nb7u27$crn$ firstname.lastname@example.org>
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
27 Sep 2016 23:10:51 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:
You seem to be confused on the roles they play. DNS server doesn't get
your email, doesn't forward your email to anyplace. Doesn't even know
you plan to send an email and could care less. And your email isn't
going to 'many servers' in route to the destination, either. MTA server
is the destination server which will get a copy of the email, as that's
the intent in the first place. It'll place the email into the proper
user mailbox because, it's the server that has your mailbox in the
And it's like this actually: SMTP asks DNS for IP address to the server
you're using to send the email (so that it can login and send the email
to the sending server aka, MTA) From there, the sending server asks the
DNS server for the IP address to the destination server or MTA. Once
the sending server or MTA has that information, it attempts to contact
the destination server or MTA and deliver the email to it. The
destination server or MTA then places the email into your mailbox, vs
others present on it. Your email isn't being passed to the DNS server
in the process, either. The DNS server isn't forwarding your email
along, anywhere. It's providing both servers the IP address so that
they can exchange a friendly greeting and then send/accept the email
and place it into the proper mailbox for you to retrieve it.
The DNS server is for your convenience so we can use something easy to
remember, like gmail.com instead of 184.108.40.206 which is the IP
address for gmail.com. Your client (your email client) has no idea what
gmail.com is, and, could care less. It's interested in an IP address to
contact. It also needs to know the IP address to the server you're
using to send from, as again, it cannot do anything with yahoo.com or
gmail.com, etc. It needs an IP address. Which is where the DNS server
comes into play. Your email is exchanged between the SMTP (your client)
to the sending server and then the sending server asks DNS for the IP
to the destination server and passes your email off to it, if possible.
So, your email goes from your client to your server then to my server.
That's how it works. That's what the article in the url you provided
told you, but, you didn't understand what you were reading based on
DNS allows domains to exist, without having to memorize individual IP
addresses. It's for human convenience and that's all. Contrary to what
you think, when you type a domain name into your web browser or email
client, your browser and email client can't use it to do anything more
than request help from a DNS server to give them the IP address to the
domain you're attempting to contact. They don't know (or care) what a
Depending on the server configuration on either end, it may accept the
email even if the address isn't valid. IE: no such user actually exists
on it. In that case, it's being stored for Adminstrator review or just
Your email goes from my server to gmail, once the IP address is
provided by the DNS server. Your email is not being bounced around
other 'servers' in route.
Re-read your own url. You'll find it matches what I just told you
above. I've also included links explaining what you think are all
seperate 'servers' getting a copy of the email in route. They aren't.
Within Internet message handling services (MHS), a message transfer
agent or mail transfer agent (MTA) or mail relay is software that
transfers electronic mail messages from one computer to another using a
client/server application architecture. An MTA implements both the
client (sending) and server (receiving) portions of the Simple Mail
The terms mail server, mail exchanger, and MX host may also refer to a
computer performing the MTA function. The Domain Name System (DNS)
associates a mail server to a domain with an MX record containing the
domain name of the host(s) providing MTA services.
A mail server is a computer that serves as an electronic post office
for email. Mail exchanged across networks is passed between mail
servers that run specially designed software. This software is built
around agreed-upon, standardized protocols for handling mail messages
and any data files (such as images, multimedia or documents) that might
be attached to them.
The Domain Name System (DNS) is a hierarchical decentralized naming
system for computers, services, or any resource connected to the
Internet or a private network. It associates various information with
domain names assigned to each of the participating entities. Most
prominently, it translates more readily memorized domain names to the
numerical IP addresses needed for the purpose of locating and
identifying computer services and devices with the underlying network
protocols. By providing a worldwide, distributed directory service, the
Domain Name System is an essential component of the functionality of
A mail exchanger record (MX record) is a type of resource record in the
Domain Name System that specifies a mail server responsible for
accepting email messages on behalf of a recipient's domain, and a
preference value used to prioritize mail delivery if multiple mail
servers are available. The set of MX records of a domain name specifies
how email should be routed with the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol
Btw, MX records are NOT required to send the email. My server will
attempt to send it to the IP address the DNS server provided it if no
such MX record exists for it. Otherwise, it'll use the MX record
specified by the DNS server; because your domain might have a seperate
IP address for the email server vs one it's using for the web server
that's hosting your site.
Either way, it just wants an IP address to establish contact with. If
the server is unreachable, my server will attempt to send it again
several more times, later. If my server is told that no such email
address exists on the target email server, it won't attempt to re-send
it later as it knows it can't possibly ever deliver it to the address I
OTH, if the destination server reached by the IP address the DNS server
provided it does accept the email, it delivers it to that server, NOT
the DNS server.
It's upto the destination server or MTA to place it into YOUR mailbox
vs someone elses mailbox on the destination server. And, depending on
the server setup, it may accept any incoming emails even if the address
isn't valid. In that case, the email isn't sitting in a normal
'mailbox', it's either been deleted when my email server signs off or
is in que for administrator review.
You're a perfect example of what I was discussing with Trader_4
concerning peers. You were provided information in the url you posted,
yet, didn't understand it and formed an incorrect opinion based on your
misunderstanding the contents of the article. A prime demonstration of
why the general public isn't capable of making correct decisions based
on the information provided if they know nothing about it.
In your case, it's even worse. You actually do think you know what
you're writing about, but, you clearly do not.
You thought DNS, etc were all getting copies of your email AND passing
it along to the next 'server' in the chain. Which is NOT how it works.
Not in the sense you think, it doesn't. In fact, if I specify an IP
address instead of the domain name, it's not involving the DNS server
at all. It's going to establish contact directly with the IP address I
specified and attempt to deliver the email to the server at that IP
address, if one answers on the standard port.
Anybody along what way? The email isn't provided to the DNS server. The
MTA server is the destination. It transfers the email it got from my
server to YOUR mailbox (if possible) vs someone elses mailbox on it.
Your email is transferred in plain text, of course, so I could snoop on
it as it leaves and the adminstrator(s) of the destination email server
(aka, MTA) can pull it up anytime they like while their server waits
for you to login and retrieve it. If you're concerned about that,
encryption is your friend.
MID: <nb7u27$crn$ email@example.com>
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
A DNS server can be hacked.
"How Hackers Can Hijack Your Website And Read Your Email, Without
Hacking Your Company...the attackers are also posting screenshots of
private emails sent to your company on Twitter...they can do that by
meddling with your Domain Name System (DNS) records...attackers were
able to compromise Malaysian registrar Webnic.cc, that looks after the
DNS entries Lenovo.com and some 600,000 other websites...By altering the
DNS entries for Lenovo, the hackers were able to redirect web traffic
trying to visit Lenovo.com to a web server under their control...the
Lizard Squad hackers were now able to receive emails sent to Lenovo.com,"
Depends on the route.
"Internet backbones are the largest data connections on the Internet.
They require high-speed bandwidth connections and high-performance
> in route to the destination, either.
hacking can occur en route.
"How to Hack the Backbone of the Internet"
"The internet backbone — the infrastructure of networks upon which
internet traffic travels — went from being a passive infrastructure for
communication to an active weapon for attacks...In this case, packet
injection is used for “man-on-the-side” attacks"
SMPT can be hacked.
"How to Extract Email Addresses from an SMTP Server"
Maybe if we were hooked by a direct wire. Otherwise depending on the
route there's likely many routers/SERVERS in between.
Doesn't have to be. See DNS hack above.
And available to ISP personnel for their hacking enjoyment?
I'm not the paranoid one. And the chances of any of the above happening
to me or the paranoid one are nil IMO. But I don't think I can convince him.
28 Sep 2016 04:47:12 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:
Yes, that's entirely possible. you could 'reconfigure' the DNS server
to fork an entirely different IP address than the one of the real
destination server and setup a honeypot to capture incoming emails;
you'd have to be sure you told your email server not to deny any
incoming emails because the mailbox doesn't actually exist though.
Easily done using for example, Mail enable. If that's something you
want to do.
None of that has anything to do with what I was originally writing
about though. The DNS server itself still isn't getting a copy of
your email. As that's not what it's for.
As your computer really doesn't know what to do with a domain name
(not to be confused with a local area network domain controller;
entirely different beastie); that's for your comfort, it just wants
an IP address. Domain names are far easier to remember than a pile of
Email isn't setup like usenet or irc for that matter. Please, do
yourself a favor, re-read your own url and the ones I took the time
to provide you in my previous reply. It's a much more 'direct' path.
Yes, you could 'hack' a DNS server and redirect queries for specific
domain names to an IP of your choosing, but, that isn't what we're
discussing. You're under the misconception that your email travels
through many servers before reaching the intended one. And, that's
not the case.
If you didn't specify a domain, but an IP address instead, It'll
attempt to contact the IP you provided instead. Even if the DNS
server you're using is compromised, providing an IP instead of a
domain name negates it, as it's not going to be queried.
Only if we're using domains and trusting DNS servers that could be
compromised. If we're using hard coded WAN side IP addresses, then,
not so much, no. That would require ISP or better level 'hacking' of
sorts. Most likely, an inside job. OR! Duping you into doing
something stupid and compromising your own machine by configuring it
to use a specific DNS server so you can control the IP address it
returns when queried. Note, I said, a specific DNS server. And it
would still have to be queried to provide the rogue IP address. If
you don't use the domain name, the compromised DNS server plays no
It's SMTP, but, I digress.
A router isn't a 'server'; Although it may have a server package of
sorts on board for local/remote administration, etc. They have a tiny
web server for this purpose, built in. It could also have a telnet
server, if you prefer configuration via console. Some have both. :)
You seem to be grasping at straws here. A rogue router could do
malicious things, certainly. You're being overly paranoid at this
stage, though. And, still showing that you really don't understand
how an email you send gets to it's destination. What's worse, you've
demonstrated that you don't understand most/any? of the material
being discussed at the urls you provided originally or in your follow
At the same time though, you are making a very good example of why I
think the general public isn't qualified on their own merits to
determine my fate in a trial involving hacking. YOU don't understand
WTF you're writing about.
Apples and oranges to be blunt.
I know a considerable amount about this; rogue software, deception,
etc. Malwarebytes paid me well for my knowledge and expertise on the
Even if you did compromise a top level DNS server for awhile , You
haven't gained control of all of them. What's worse, if the DNS
server I use already has an IP address for a domain I want to
contact, it's not going to ask the top level DNS server you hacked
anything. It'll only ask DNS servers higher up the food chain until
it reaches one that's familiar with the domain I'm asking about and
gets an IP from it and again, lemme stress, this only happens if it
doesn't already have a record of that domain.
From the second url I shared with you, previously, that, you didn't
Address resolution mechanism
Domain name resolvers determine the domain name servers responsible
for the domain name in question by a sequence of queries starting
with the right-most (top-level) domain label.
A DNS recursor consults three name servers to resolve the address
For proper operation of its domain name resolver, a network host is
configured with an initial cache (hints) of the known addresses of
the root name servers. The hints are updated periodically by an
administrator by retrieving a dataset from a reliable source.
Assuming the resolver has no cached records to accelerate the
process, the resolution process starts with a query to one of the
root servers. In typical operation, the root servers do not answer
directly, but respond with a referral to more authoritative servers,
e.g., a query for "www.wikipedia.org" is referred to the org servers.
The resolver now queries the servers referred to, and iteratively
repeat this process until it receives an authoritative answer. The
diagram illustrates this process for the host www.wikipedia.org.
This mechanism would place a large traffic burden on the root
servers, if every resolution on the Internet would require starting
at the root. In practice caching is used in DNS servers to off-load
the root servers, and as a result, root name servers actually are
involved in only a fraction of all requests.
And people would notice something is seriously wrong. Lots of people.
As they did with the lizard squad hack you mentioned. it didn't take
them long to figure out some bullshit was going on with a DNS server
and a bogus web site. Didn't take a rocket scientist to isolate the
compromised DNS server, either. It was obvious.
Your ISP can technically see everything your box is doing that isn't
encrypted, yes. That's always been the case as they are your link to
the internet and they have an upstream beyond them as well that can
also see what your machine has been doing as well as everyone else
machines that use that particular ISP.
If you're using encryption, they can only see that you reached out to
so and so server at such and such IP, but, they cannot view the
contents of what you exchanged with that particular server.
What your alluding to is a form of a man in the middle attack. I
don't disagree with that. I disagree with the idea that you think
your email is traveling all sorts of different places before it
reaches it's 'final destination' as that isn't so.
It's not difficult for the administrator of the email server you
use/correspond with to spy on you, if they want. I can pull up the
contents of ANY of the users mailboxes on mine, with ease. I don't as
a rule, but I can.
It's more like the BBS days, actually. It's the SysOps equipment and
he/she has access to your message posts, and 'private' emails sent to
other users on the board. It's why my boards would inform people that
nothing they do on my system should be considered private as I do
have full access to any/all information exchanges. If you're using
encryption, obviously I can't 'read' what you wrote (assuming you
used something 'real' vs some crack pot home brew garbage that I can
crack), but I know you wrote something and I know who you wrote it
Your ISP is no different in that respect. Nor is the owner of the
email server you use or the owner of the email server you sent the
email to. It's best to assume that unless your comms are encrypted
with a solid cypher, either end administration can read them at will.
The chances are extremely remote as long as you follow safer hex
practices, yes. None of this has anything to do with your original
suggestion that many servers are getting copies of your email,
though. That's not how it works.
People you encounter every day are fighting battles you know nothing
about. Be kind.
True. But hacking a DNS server to get an email has the same end result.
You didn't read my links with examples of en route hacks?
Attacking typos now? That's a sign of having a weak argument.
My links showed the Internet is composed of many SERVERS/routers.
My links showed how various agencies have hacked these SERVERS/routers.
Personal attacks now? That's a sign of having a weak argument.
Whoa. You've been arrested for hacking??
Profanity now? That's a sign of having a weak argument.
We can claim to be anything we want to be on Usenet.
"When you send an e-mail to someone, the message breaks up into packets
that travel across the network. Different packets from the same message
don't have to follow the same path. That's part of what makes the
Internet so robust and fast. Packets will travel from one machine to
another until they reach their destination."
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