That they've managed to recover 76% of the $17 bil. That's quite
amazing. I guess a lot of the people that he paid returns too have
money and they are clawing it back successfully. It's very good to
hear. A 24% haircut is still substantial, but it's more in the range
of what you might could happen with many investments and should be
survivable. Unless you're one of the people who already killed
On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 08:25:07 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
It just creates a new category of victim. Those people who invested
with Bernie in good faith and did not do anything criminal are also
being punished simply because they spent some of their "profits".
I wonder if they also clawed back some of these people's initial
investment money? (not profit at all)
On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 12:26:08 PM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
I doubt they clawed back any of the initial investment, only the ill
gotten gains they received. You have a valid point. If someone is
very wealthy and has plenty of assets to be able to pay the clawback,
it's one thing. If they spent the money or lost it in other investments
and don't have it anymore, it's another. I would think that as part
of the process they take that into consideration in how aggressively
they go after each investor. But regardless, it sure must suck to have
gotten money paid out 20 years ago that you thought was your profit,
your money and to know have the govt come looking for it back.
On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 09:31:49 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
That is especially true if you actually thought you were invested in a
real fund or even a 3d party investor where you really were in a fund
that put money with Madoff. To get this much back, they must really
be digging deep and getting every dime they can find, mostly from
people honest enough to have a good paper trail. You have3 to belie3ve
anyone who knew this was too good to be true invested through an off
shore shell company that is nothing but a memory now and the money has
been thuroughly washed.
On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 6:01:29 PM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I don't think anybody thought it was a scam but invested anyway. Because if they
did, they would have known enough that it's not worth it. He was providing
good returns, but you'd have to be nuts to go into it if you thought
it was a scam. Who would risk all their money in a scam for ~10% a year?
I also don't believe that his sons didn't know about it either. They
were running his legitimate trading operation just a couple floors
away. Here you have your father running a huge fund that's in the billions
and they didn't wonder where the trades were being executed? They would
almost surely have to know. You'd also think at least some people in
the trade execution business would know it too. You'd think they would
want to try to get some of his business and they'd be asking, gee, where
is all this business going and some would figure out there really isn't
any trading at all.
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 14 Jun 2018 15:16:02 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
I don't think any investor thought it was a scam either. Many were
told my friends how much money they were making, They just thought he
was an investment wizard, who could predict accurately what would go up.
Lots of people claim to do that and they knew people who had apparently
made a lot of money with him.
Like the guy from Omaha, whose name I can never remember. Hubbard? At
least some people who invested with him or along with him got rich, and
people hope to meat someone like that. (BTW, it turns out the land
right on the other side of the stream from me is now owned by an a
company.... that's owned by that guy.
Just to clarify, that's 76 percent of the _real_, as opposed
to the fictituous statement value. [a]
Which is still damn good, and a hell of a lot more than
expected in the earlydays.
Gotta say I'm still very disturbed that only Madoff (and
maybe that accountant) got jail time. The rest bought
up Get Out of Jail Free cards.
[a]I remember some stories way back that there were groups
that were, indeed, getting payments based on the fake
paper value. No idea if this ever really happened.
ALSO, many of the people/groups who had already cashed
in their (fake) holdings... got to keep them.
Some but not, to the best of my knowledge, had them
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