Oil vs. gas heat in this scenario?

[Dairy Godmother]

Hi there,

Just bought a house in CT and am navigating options (my first house). The house has an oil tank (which I find hard to wrap my head around, I'm from CA and we didnt have oil tanks) which works fine, though it has been patched and the inspector told me it could not be insured as a result. So it got my mind to thinking about the options and I realized I had no experience to even begin to have an opinion, so here I am. Here are the facts:

-- Stamford, CT house built in 1925

-- gas lines run into basement but not used

-- oil tank and boiler (not sure of boiler age, I'm thinking not that new but not too old)

-- radiators in each room

-- electric appliances (but would love gas one day)

-- no central a/c (would love that one day too)

I'd like to know what scenario would make the most sense if I want to be economical in the long run. Here are my questions if anyone is interested / can help:

-- If we put in central air, would it require gas or is electric possible?

-- if C/A requres gas, does that mean the heat should be gas as well? I prefer radiator heat, but is it lame to have a sep. system for cooling and heating? (oil heat and gas a/c)

-- can you run radiators with gas (vs. oil)? seems inefficient

-- given that we dont like it too warm (60-65) and are happy to heat only those rooms as we need them, is there an electric-based option that saves money (short of portable space heaters)?

Lastly, anyone from the area able to comment about price of oil vs. gas vs. electric?

I really appreciate any commentary -- I see other entries along these lines but some are old and some are not from the Northeast. thanks!

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Hi D-G,

As per your previous thread, if you already have gas to the outside of this home and you must replace the oil tank because it cannot be insured, then now is a great time to make the switch to gas.

From what you've described here and elsewhere, you have a hot water heating system, so to install central air requires that you run duct work throughout your home. That's likely to be costly and potentially messy work in an older home such as this. If you want air conditioning, you might consider going with one or more ductless heat pumps [or, alternatively, a multi-zone model], also known as mini-splits.

If you're not familiar with this technology, here are a couple brochures to get you started:

They provide both air conditioning and economical heat even in CT where electricity sells for $0.16 to $0.18 per kWh. How economical? At today's prices, as little as one-half to one-third the cost of home heating oil.

Bear in mind no one knows how much oil, gas or electricity will cost five, ten or twenty years from now. As I said before, a lot has changed in just the past two years alone. Your *ONLY* safe bet is to insulate and air seal this home to the greatest extent possible so that regardless of whichever fuel you use, you'll be using very little.

Cheers, Paul

[ransley]

You buy insurance, you are insured unless the insurance co tells you you are not.

Look into spacepack AC.

Your utility rates are local to you, you have to run the numbers, nobody knows where Ng oil prices will be in a year or 2, but likely Ng might be cheapest, but then maybe electric will be.

[Banty]

I have oil heat (sticking with it since we don't get gas here; I'd have to do another tank), but in that scenario I'd probably go with the gas. For one thing, I haven't seen any oil-fired inline water heaters. Unless someone here can point me to one..

Banty

[salty]

Try Googling

"inline water heater" "oil"

[trader4]

Yes, that's true. But what the policy covers and excludes is a big factor. Many insurance companies have exclusions for buried oil tanks. I'd carefully read the policy regarding oil tanks period.

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Hi Banty,

For a general overview on water heating options, click on the "Hot Water Answers" link here:

And although the pricing data may not be relevant to you, this table could still be of some interest:

Cheers, Paul

[pipedown]

-- Stamford, CT house built in 1925 Cold enough to think about this now and old enough that the functionality of unused pipes is in question

Get it tested for leaks, and verify it is still connected to the gas company service end. Make sure it will pass code (big enough for your use) before you get all excited about using them for a new service.

Even an Old boiler may have many years left in it if maintained well. Estimating its efficiency and comparing that to your new heating options would be a rational analysis.

Oil tanks do need replacement periodically. New fiberglass tanks are easier to move and decommission and last longer and don't rust.

You'll want to stick with forced hot water system if you want to use them. If you go with central air (which also heats) these will be obsolete. Old radiators are in demand at salvage yards and newer baseboard radiators have copper and Al that can be recycled to recover a tiny bit of the cost. Is this a hot water or steam system (hard to guess from the date)

If you restore the Gas service you might as well stub in a pipe for the range and dryer and maybe a bigger one (than typical) for the water heater should you desire a tankless system. You'll already be paying a plumber some bucks. Even if you never upgrade your appliances, it will be a selling plus when that day comes.

Residential A/C is almost always electric. If you go that way, you will need to install ducting for the whole house as well as a heater A/C unit. A very expensive upgrade for a small home. A less intrusive solution is to leave your heating system alone and install separate split system A/C units in each room. You only need a small hole in the exterior wall to run the pipe and power through. The Compressor is outside on the ground and the A/C fan and cooling coil is hung on the wall. About $3000 for a system to cool a couple rooms

[salty]

Another popular option, especially if it's a one story house is to do all the A/C ductwork in the attic and ceilings.

If you can avoid switching to forced air heat, you will retain more value in the home. Many people would never consider a home with forced air no matter how nice a deal it is otherwise. It's a deal breaker.

[Banty]

OK - one source doesn't mention direct heat; the other only gas-fired direct heat.

Why are there no oil-fired direct heaters?

Banty

[hallerb]

e:

theres high pressure ducting, small lines, a few inches in diameter used to save costs. can add noise so they have atuneators in the lines.

you should get some estimates including high pressure, which works for both heating and cooling

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Hi Banty,

I don't know of any myself. I'm familiar with direct-fired natural gas and propane units such as this:

but none made for oil. Perhaps the market is deemed too small for a low-volume product like this (and with home heating oil selling at $4.25+ a gallon, it's likely to contract a whole lot further).

Cheers, Paul

[Banty]

I don't know about that - there's a huge installed base of oil-fired furnaces and boilers, especially here in the northeast US, many (like mine) in places without gas service. Plus, gas and oil have a history of see-sawing as far as prices. There's lots of people around to tell woes of converting one way or the other based on then-current prices, only to be burned.

Since these are reputed to be so efficiant, the oil prices should have customers lining up.

Banty

[rgoldste]

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e to do

No one in this discussion has mentioned the current price of oil , $3.60 / gallon/140,000 btus vs gas which is now $1.30/therm/100,00 btus. The cost per therm of oil right now is twice the cost per therm of gas in my area. One solution is run the oil tank dry. Then check the prices of oil vs gas. If there is still a great discrepancy and the boiler is in good shape, then replace the oil burner with a conversion gas burner. It is a quick job(I am told about 2 hours) if the gas pipe is nearby. BTW the cost of this burner is around $850. Richard

[Bob M.]

Since it sounds like you have hot water heat, central air would be really expensive to add due to ductwork that doesn't currently exist. Regardless, gas is almost always more efficient than oil. But - is the gas line big enough for the task? Only a heating pro can tell you that.

[Paul M. Eldridge]

Hi Banty,

Looking at the latest DOE figures for Y2005, nationally, 7.7 million out of a total of 111.1 million households use oil; that's less than 7 per cent. New England is the notable exception, where 6.2 million of the 20.6 million homes in this region are heated with oil (30 per cent).

In 2001, there were 8.7 million homes in the U.S. that were oil heated, of which 6.6 million were located in the northeast. That means one million U.S. homes converted to some other fuel in the span of that four year period alone -- 400,000 in the New England area.

Sources:

Given the rapid run up in fuel oil prices since 2005, I'd expect that trend to accelerate further. The residential fuel oil market is imploding as we speak.

Cheers, Paul

[Banty]

I haven't seen that. But, I'd like to know, as an owner of an 18 year old Burnham oil burner in an area with no gas service anywhere near, what my best ocnversion option would be.

Banty

[Chris Hill]

I'd see if a gas burner couldn't be installed in the boiler, and use window units or mini splits for ac. Oil is likely to continue its upward trajectory, and the liability of an uninsured tank is something to be taken seriously.

[Doug]

What liability for an uninsured tank? I beleive he's talking about a basement tank, typically 275 gallon capacity, not an underground tank that could indeed offer environmental hazards.

When small basement tanks leak it almost always starts as a pinhole leak giving on a drip onto the basement foor. I've seen people go for an entire heating season with a bucket under the drip, or a temporary patch.

Replacement of such a tank, as long as there is easy basement access, is a simple affair. At wholesale equipment outlets around me, new steel tanks cost only about $300. Installation costs may bring a replacement up to about $1000.

By insurance I suspect that he meant an annual burner/tank service policy. When oil companies see advanced age on burners or tanks, they won't insure it for a service contract.

To the original poster:

With Connecticut making a dumb experiment with electric rate deregulation (as did California under Gov. Gray out Gray), electrical rates have skyrocketed. Connecticut, except perhaps for Hawaii, now has the highest rates in the nation. Don't even consider electric heat.

Electric heat pumps are also generally a poor choice here in CT. There are simply too many winter days that are cold enough to make the backup electrical resistance heaters in the heat pump come on, spinning your service meter and drving up your costs. Heat pumps only are efficient down to about 35 degrees. Most CT winter days are below that.

Doug

[Paul M. Eldridge]

[...snip...]

Hi Doug,

In an earlier reply to the OP, I recommended that she consider a ductless heat pump to address her a/c needs and to help out with her heating requirements as well. I also provided a link to the following brochure:

One of the models listed is the M24YF. It has a nominal cooling capacity of 24,200 BTU/hr and in terms of heat output is rated at

27,600 BTU/hr at 47F and 21,000 BTU/hr at 17F. Thus, this two-ton unit still provides nearly 90 per cent of its rated heat output at a temperature well below freezing (this particular model operates down to 5F).

The HSPF rating is 10.0 (Zone 4, which, if I'm not mistaken, includes all of CT). In effect, it provides, on average, 2.94 kWh of heat for every kWh consumed, so if the OP pays $0.18 per kWh, her effective cost per kWh of heat over the span of the entire heating season is just $0.061. At an AFUE of 82%, that works out to be the equivalent of oil heat at $2.04 per gallon -- in this case, less than half the going rate.

If the OP ultimately decides to keep her oil boiler, it makes good sense to pay a few hundred dollars more for a mini-split that both heats and cools; the incremental cost could be recaptured in as little as one or two months.

If she switches to natural gas, then a ductless heat pump could still make sense, even if is only used during periods of relatively mild weather; again, the difference in cost between an a/c only system and a heat pump is relatively modest and it's always a good idea to have a backup source of heat in case the main system goes down for any reason.

Then again, it might make sense to use it all winter long. According to the DOE's most recent numbers, the average (six month) retail price of natural gas in Connecticut is $1.766 per 100 CCF (roughly speaking,

100 CCF = 1 therm = 100,000 BTUs). A gas boiler with an AFUE of 86% provides about 25.2 kWh of heat (net) so, on that basis, natural gas costs about $0.07 per kWh(e). That means the seasonal operating costs of aforementioned heat pump at $0.061 per kWh(e) are lower, even when the homeowner pays $0.18 per kWh to their utility.

Cheers, Paul