Tranes fine...overpriced, but then, the company went belly up in the 80s and
was saved by American Standard..the toilet bowl company........think about
Also, in a nutshell, FUCK home depot....period....they are NOTHING but a
middleman that is costing you more money....
Tell ya what...I can get a York guy out there, and hes only gonna charge you
what *I* tell him to.....think about that..see..Home Depot is doing nothin
but taking money from you for doing nothing that you cant do...they will
call the same Trane dealers you can...charge you more for doing nothing more
than making a phone call.....now..I dont know about you, but a $1500 phone
calls kinda high..
Quick update guys....
3 different folks came over to the house and looked at my system/house,
and gave me quotes....now here are some of the points that I need some
1. They all confirmed that at the end of the year there will be no more
sub 13SEER models....13 will be the lowest end. Which brings to the
point, doesn't it make more sense to buy a 13 SEER given that parts and
what not will be more readily available in the future?
2. Couple of the guys who came out install both Carrier, trane, and
Rheem, and they all agreed that Trane makes the better part......is
this accurate? They all mentioned the way the parts are made, the all
aluminum fins, etc etc.
3. going to a 13 SEER (r22) variable speed units, I'm looking at $3700
for either Trane or Carrier (with the Rheem at $3250). Going to a 14
SEER, R410, Trane we are looking at $4300!! Trane apparently has a
promotion as well to have free Electric air filters when you go to
their XL14i series......................here is where I am stomped! is
it worth it to invest the extra $500 or so to go with the XL series
unit, R410, and the electric air filter thingy, or just stick with the
XR12, R22, units for $3500?
so basically it breaks down like this:
Rheem, 12 SEER, one-speed, RAMM series : $2700
Rheem, 13 SEER, var speed, RAMC series: $3250
Carrier, 12 SEER, one-speed, comfort series: $2900
Carrier, 13 SEER, var speed, perf series R22: $3500
Carrier, 13 SEER, var speed, perf series R410: $4100
Carrier, 14 SEER, var speed, perf series R410: $4300
Trane, 13 SEER, var speed, XR12, R22: $3500
Trane, 13 SEER, var speed, XR12 R410: $3800
Trane, 14 SEER, var speed, XL12 R410, $4300 (free electric air filter,
Variable spped indoor units are usually quieter.
Variable speed indoor units will dehumidify better when set to enhanced
Variable speed blower motors are more efficient than standard motors
Variable speed blower motors are more powerful than standard motors in
most applications. They will help overcome minor duct restrictions and
high resistance air filters.
If humidity is a problem, Trane/American Standard has some of the
lowest sensible heat ratios (SHR) in the industry. That means they
NOTE: This assumes they are installed properly, refrigerant charge &
air flow are correct and unit is not oversized! It is also important
to seal any ducts that are outside the thermal envelope/pressure
envelope of the house.
Trane, 13 SEER, var speed, XR12, R22: $3500
Is this a heat pump or A/C only? If it is a heat pump then that's a
good installed price for this equipment here in Florida, and it would be
my choice among those listed. Get a 10 year factory parts and labor
warranty for another $400 or so and you won't have to worry about
anything until 2015.
Also see if your local power company offers a rebate for installing > 12
SEER heat pumps.
the price is for the AC unit outside, plus new handler inside.... the
warranty is 10-5-1, but when going with the XL series, it becomes
I'm thinking this, or perhaps the XL series one....not sure if the
price diff is worth it...
no, it never really crossed my mind about the heat pump....almost
no-body has one, so I don't know.
if the unit costs $3500 for a 13 SEER, XR12, R22, 10-5-1, then do you
think it makes sense to try and get the $4300 14SEER, XL series,
10-10-2 ?? even if I get the 10-10-10 for $400 on the other model,
I'm still only $400 away from a better unit outside, higher SEER, and
newer technology.....just some thought, not to mention the free
electric filter thingy.
The XL14 is certainly a nice system...I like the side-discharge top
design which keeps water off the condenser fan motor. When paired with
a VS air handler the system is rated at 15.0 SEER. It does have a big
footprint 50Hx37Wx34D so make sure that it will fit on your pad with
12" clearances on at least two sides, and the other two sides
The warranties aren't directly comparable. A 10 year Trane extended
parts and labor warranty covers everything that could go wrong with the
system, while the "10-10-2" warranty is 10 years on the compressor,
10 years on other "internal functional parts", and 2 years labor.
Let's assume that after two years a braze joint develops a pinhole leak
and all the refrigerant leaks out. Absent the extended warranty you
will be charged for the cost of the service call, the repair, and the
Going from 13.0 SEER to 15.0 SEER means you'll save about 15% on your
air conditioning bill. Where I live the electric power rate is about
10.5 cent / KWh (all taxes, fees, etc. included). Let's assume yours is
the same for this exercise. 4 Tons is 48,000 BTU. At 13 SEER a 48K BTU
system will consume approximately (48K/13) 3.7KW. At 15 SEER the power
usage would be (48K/15) 3.2KW. So for every hour that the system runs
you will save approximately (3.7 - 3.2)= .5KW x $.105 = $.0525, or a
lttle over 5 cents an hour. If your A/C is sized correctly it should
run about 50% of the time on a 24 hour basis. So .0525 x 12 = .63/day,
or about $19.00 a month during peak summer temperatures. Let's say
there are five months a year where the A/C runs 50% of the time, the
rest of the year it doesn't run a significant amount.
Now we consider the opportunity cost on the $1000 incremental cost. If
you were to invest it at 3.5% (Emigrant Direct's current money market
rate) you'd earn $35 a year. Depending on your tax bracket that might
be a $28 net return. Incorporating this into our calculation we get
$19*5 months - $28 opportunity cost = $67 net savings/year. If you
'invest' the $1000 to net $67 in savings it will take 14.9 years to
recover your 'investment', assuming that electric rates don't go up.
Is it worth it? In most cases, no. YMMV.
And don't forget to have your contractor perform a full room-by-room
"Manual J" heat gain calculation before you finalize the system size.
Four tons may be OK, but it could also be oversized or undersized. The
only way to 'right size' it is through a formal calculation. Your
contractor should be willing to do this as part of the contract. If
they aren't, find another contractor.
Travis....I talked to the installer once again, and here are some of
the final numbers....it will be one of these systems that I go with:
1) Trane 13SEER, XR12 series, 10-5-1 warranty, $3495 (+$495 for
2) Trane 15SEER, XL14i series, 10-10-2, $4395 (plus free electric air
filtering system, a $1200 value..I looked it up online)
I will go with one of these, but I just don't know if the extra $900 is
worth it....it's a higher SEER, its the XL14 series which has dual
blower speeds, humidifier, etc, etc, plus it has the oem 10-10 warranty
(2 on labor).....I know the XR12 is very good as well, so I am
comfortable with that one, but the extra OEM warranty and free
filtering system, as well as the better technology for $900 is
something I am pondering...
What's the price on a 10-10-10 warranty for the XL14i?
Please clarify what you are saying about the humidifier...is the
contractor offering a humidifier or an air cleaner with the XL14i?
Note that if you get the air cleaner you want it to be located somewhere
easy to get to for cleaning -- ie NOT in the attic.
I just got off the phone with him, and he said he is willing to do
this, best case:
XR12, 10-10-10 = $3495 + 495 = $3990
XL14, 10-10-2 = $4395
XL14, 10-10-10 = $4395 + 300 = $4695
The air cleaner is an electric air filtering system from trane:
it pairs up with the Handler, inside the closet where the handler would
be, and the MSRP on it is $1200 (again, obviously this is not a good
price, is just msrp, but nonetheless is free with teh XL series).
yes, I will have access to it,since it will be in the closet upstairs
in the second floor of the house.
My wife is leaning towards the XR12 series for $3495, since she doesn't
know how long we will be in the house, and given our financial
situation, etc......But, the more I think about it, the more I like the
value for performance of going with the XL....perhaps it's just my
nature of wanting the best, and not what I need....;-)
what do you think?
Get the warranty regardless of which system you select. It will give
you peace of mind for the next decade.
I think here in Florida these are good prices for both of those systems,
and that you would be happy with either one of them. Don't forget about
doing the heat gain calculation before you firm up the size.
If you or anyone in your family have any allergies the air cleaner would
be worth the additional cost, especially since it will be easy to get to
in the closet. Also note that it would be a selling feature when you go
to sell your home (might get you a few hundred $$$ in pricing at that
Let us know what you decide to do, and how the installation turns out.
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