Need opinions, Carrier vs Rheem (4-ton, 12SEER unit)

[Carolina Breeze HVAC]

Tranes fine...overpriced, but then, the company went belly up in the 80s and was saved by American Standard..the toilet bowl company........think about it..

Also, in a nutshell, FUCK home depot....period....they are NOTHING but a middleman that is costing you more money.... Tell ya what...I can get a York guy out there, and hes only gonna charge you what *I* tell him to.....think about that..see..Home Depot is doing nothin but taking money from you for doing nothing that you cant do...they will call the same Trane dealers you can...charge you more for doing nothing more than making a phone call.....now..I dont know about you, but a $1500 phone calls kinda high..

>

[Carolina Breeze HVAC]

No..its not..... ITs more prone to idiots that have no idea how to work with R410a and its actually really quite simple, once you have the training..however, urban myths, marketing, and lies will abound...get used to 410a....its here to stay, and in a few short years, its all you will have...period..

No...they dont..Tranes are just as bad as any louvered unit, and most of the ones that people have hosed off for a few years are the ones that I love...they end up wtih that Climatuff going BOOM...but hey..its your marketing you fell for..

LOL

God....the marketing....the marketing...

[Carolina Breeze HVAC]

Slight correction....Freon, WAS DuPonts trade name for R12. Now, it is used on EVERY refrigerant they offer...including 410a....

[Carolina Breeze HVAC]

Take a look at the pink jug there....sure..its got SUVA on it, but its also got the word Freon on it... Both right..both wrong..no matter, its there.

[Travis Jordan]

Of course, Trane was in the plumbing business long before it ever became an HVAC company.

Think about that.

[alt.home.repair]

Quick update guys....

3 different folks came over to the house and looked at my system/house, and gave me quotes....now here are some of the points that I need some feedback on:

1. They all confirmed that at the end of the year there will be no more sub 13SEER models....13 will be the lowest end. Which brings to the point, doesn't it make more sense to buy a 13 SEER given that parts and what not will be more readily available in the future?

2. Couple of the guys who came out install both Carrier, trane, and Rheem, and they all agreed that Trane makes the better part......is this accurate? They all mentioned the way the parts are made, the all aluminum fins, etc etc.

1. going to a 13 SEER (r22) variable speed units, I'm looking at 00 for either Trane or Carrier (with the Rheem at 50). Going to a 14 SEER, R410, Trane we are looking at 00!! Trane apparently has a promotion as well to have free Electric air filters when you go to their XL14i series......................here is where I am stomped! is it worth it to invest the extra 0 or so to go with the XL series unit, R410, and the electric air filter thingy, or just stick with the XR12, R22, units for 00?

so basically it breaks down like this:

Rheem, 12 SEER, one-speed, RAMM series : $2700 Rheem, 13 SEER, var speed, RAMC series: $3250 Carrier, 12 SEER, one-speed, comfort series: $2900 Carrier, 13 SEER, var speed, perf series R22: $3500 Carrier, 13 SEER, var speed, perf series R410: $4100 Carrier, 14 SEER, var speed, perf series R410: $4300 Trane, 13 SEER, var speed, XR12, R22: $3500 Trane, 13 SEER, var speed, XR12 R410: $3800 Trane, 14 SEER, var speed, XL12 R410, $4300 (free electric air filter, etc)

any thoughts?

[alt.home.repair]

the price is for the AC unit outside, plus new handler inside.... the warranty is 10-5-1, but when going with the XL series, it becomes

10-10-2.

I'm thinking this, or perhaps the XL series one....not sure if the price diff is worth it...

[alt.home.repair]

no, it never really crossed my mind about the heat pump....almost no-body has one, so I don't know.

if the unit costs $3500 for a 13 SEER, XR12, R22, 10-5-1, then do you think it makes sense to try and get the $4300 14SEER, XL series,

10-10-2 ?? even if I get the 10-10-10 for $400 on the other model, I'm still only $400 away from a better unit outside, higher SEER, and newer technology.....just some thought, not to mention the free electric filter thingy.

[Travis Jordan]

A slight correction to your correction... Freon is DuPont's tradename for hydrochlorofluorocarbon based refrigerants.

Suva is their tradename for

[Travis Jordan]

[Stretch]

Steve, Freon is DuPont's trade name for ALL their old refrigerants. Their new refrigerants are SUVA.

Stretch

[Stretch]

alt,

Variable spped indoor units are usually quieter.

Variable speed indoor units will dehumidify better when set to enhanced mode.

Variable speed blower motors are more efficient than standard motors

Variable speed blower motors are more powerful than standard motors in most applications. They will help overcome minor duct restrictions and high resistance air filters.

If humidity is a problem, Trane/American Standard has some of the lowest sensible heat ratios (SHR) in the industry. That means they dehumidify better. NOTE: This assumes they are installed properly, refrigerant charge & air flow are correct and unit is not oversized! It is also important to seal any ducts that are outside the thermal envelope/pressure envelope of the house.

Stretch

[Travis Jordan]

Trane, 13 SEER, var speed, XR12, R22: $3500

Is this a heat pump or A/C only? If it is a heat pump then that's a good installed price for this equipment here in Florida, and it would be my choice among those listed. Get a 10 year factory parts and labor warranty for another $400 or so and you won't have to worry about anything until 2015.

Also see if your local power company offers a rebate for installing > 12 SEER heat pumps.

[Travis Jordan]

You should be able to buy a 10-10-10 warranty for the XR12 for $400 MOL.

Have you considered a heat pump instead of straight A/C? Heat pumps are quite cost effective here in the south.

[Travis Jordan]

The XL14 is certainly a nice system...I like the side-discharge top design which keeps water off the condenser fan motor. When paired with a VS air handler the system is rated at 15.0 SEER. It does have a big footprint 50Hx37Wx34D so make sure that it will fit on your pad with

12" clearances on at least two sides, and the other two sides unrestricted.

The warranties aren't directly comparable. A 10 year Trane extended parts and labor warranty covers everything that could go wrong with the system, while the "10-10-2" warranty is 10 years on the compressor,

10 years on other "internal functional parts", and 2 years labor.

Let's assume that after two years a braze joint develops a pinhole leak and all the refrigerant leaks out. Absent the extended warranty you will be charged for the cost of the service call, the repair, and the replacement refrigerant.

[Travis Jordan]

How much more is the XL14i in R22?

[Carolina Breeze HVAC]

I prefer LT-10-10.....LT= Lifetime and no, I damn sure dont mean Goodman crap.

[Carolina Breeze HVAC]

And Gentrons the name for Honeywells.... Thats not the point he was making and Freon, WAS at one time, the registered trade name for R12...but probably before your time.

Point I was making, that on the pallet of 410a we have in the warehouse, Freon IS used on the boxes... Of course, its also on every box of DuPont brand refrigerant we have.

[alt.home.repair]

Travis, how much would you say is worth it to go to the XLi series? there is almost a 1K jump in price, so I don't know....is it worth it?

[alt.home.repair]

that's what I thought.....thanks!

ps- great breakdown there ;-)