mixing wire sizes

Have a bathroom fed by a 20-amp circuit. I replaced the switches from plain toggle to Decora style. The problem is the power feed wire and wires to the lights/fan are #12s.

I found it difficult to properly pigtail and pushing all the #12 wires back into the box due to their stiffness and the increased switch size.

Is it acceptable to run/replace the one feeding the switches and wires to the lights/fan with #14s. The power feed is up in the attic space in a J-box that contains another #12 to the vanity outlet.

thanks richard

Reply to
a2rjh
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If you are pigtailing, pigtail on stranded wire.

Reply to
gfretwell

Actually he can't (at least not in the US) - note that he said bathroom.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

NO, you can not pigtail with a smaller gauge wire size according to the code (you can go larger). A 20A circuit needs ALL 12 guage in the whole circuit. You could however replace the 20A breaker with a 15A and then you could use #14 wire anywhere on that circuit.

If those wires were in the box, they WILL go back in. Fold them carefully. They're not that stiff.... I have used a wooden stick such as a lath, to help push the wires in the box. Or use a screwdriver handle. Just dont tear the insulation.

Use stranded #12 for the pigtails if nothing else.

Reply to
jw

Andy comments: If you do this, and use #14, you should change the breaker to a 15 amp breaker.

While it is against code to mix wire sizes, it will at least be a safe fix if the breaker is selected to protect the smallest wire....

I believe the reason that mixing wire sizes is a no-no is that , in the future, someone may want to add a circuit and will see the larger wire is #12, and ASSUME it is a 20 amp circuit, and continue on with that assumption.... I can see no other reason for this rule, but keeping a "standard method" is always a good idea. However, purely from a safety standpoint, the breaker size should govern.....

Andy

Reply to
Andy

Reply to
RBM

I think there is an exception for baths where 14 is allowed downstream from the gfci outlet even though it is supplied by 12. But I'm not sure. I'm also not sure how the lights are supposed to be handled if they are on the same circuit.

It also occurs to me to wonder if the 20amp requirement only applies to full baths? What about 3/4 and 1/2 baths? Can they use 14 on a 15 amp circuit?

We've got a few members that seem to be very well versed in the code, perhaps we'll hear from them.

Reply to
jamesgangnc

no

no

A bathroom is any area with a basin and a shower, tub or toilet The code does not talk about fractions of a bathroom.

Reply to
gfretwell

No. If the wires are too stiff to fold back into the box, use stranded wire for the pigtails. (the box is probably undersized.)

-Bob

Reply to
zxcvbob

It's probably something I'm doing wrong. I just go to the bottom of the post and make my reply. It could also be the crappy news reader from Optimum online, that I use.

Reply to
RBM

Ditto on both counts from my end. Most recent post was normal, previous one looked like a quote.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Danniken

Thank you all for the suggestions and input. I am trying NOT to downsize on the breaker size. I was using scrap solid #12 to pigtail. Will definitely give #12 stranded a shot.

Reply to
a2rjh

=3D=3D Stranded is not the best either...use solid #12 if at all possible. Some inspectors really frown on stranded in any box. I was told this by one electrician but he himself bent the rules when he didn't have enough solid with him. =3D=3D

Reply to
Roy

When I split the 12-gauge 20-amp feed for my bathroom to put the light and fan on separate switches, I had to put a box extender on the J box up in the attic, to get enough room. And yes, I used 12 for the new runs. Existing hillbilly wiring was wires up in the air sticking up from an uncovered box, with barely-attached wirenuts. First time I poked at it, several wirenuts fled into the darkness, never to be seen again. What I put back may not meet modern code for new construction (like feeding the counter GFCI from an unswitched outlet in bedroom next door), but it is a hell of a lot safer than what I found. (In this township, inspection is theoretical, as evidenced by the stupid stuff previous owner did, that I keep finding. Floating butt splices in walls, no romex clamps on fixtures, backwards-wired outlets, basement ceiling lights hooked up by shoving ends of romex into outlets above drop ceilings, etc, etc.)

Reply to
aemeijers

There should be no problem using stranded wire. It is often used when wires are fished into conduits.

It can be harder to use with a wirenut. I usually leave the stranded a little longer, and pull on the wires to make sure there are good connections.

Also harder to keep the wire under screws on devices. I usually split the stranded wire into 2 bunches (end of the wire looks like a Y) and tightly twist the bunches together.

Reply to
bud--

*Ditto x3. If I remember right, John G. sometimes has the same problem. He starts his responses with a asterisk which makes it clear what he adds.
Reply to
bud--

I agree on the box being too small if thy wont fit, but some (many) people dont know how to fold the wires for a proper fit. Most just jam them in any old way. I once saw a homeowner smashing the wires into the box with a hammer, while i was working on a remodel job. I felt like telling him what I thought about that, but he was a real asshole to work for anyhow, so I didnt need more to argue with the asshole about. I still wonder how many breakers blew when he powered up that circuit.

Reply to
jw

That could be the key. John and I use the same ISP. I will try to remember to start my replies with an asterisk as well.

>
Reply to
RBM

Not by any inspector that knows the code. Just be sure you twist it up tight before you wrap it around the screw and you are perfectly legal.

Reply to
gfretwell

Try hitting one carrier return to space the reply down one line to get away from the quote.

Reply to
gfretwell

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