15 gage wire on 20 amp circuit

[Usenet User]

I need to add a ceiling light in the bathroom, and is going to wire to the circuit for the bathroom, which is 20 amp.

Is is OK to use 15 gage for the light (

[Curmudgeon]

I would suspect your bathroom circuit can stand the addition of another amp or so...which is about what a 100 watt light bulb might add. 14/2 wire to the lamp will work fine. I'm assuming you're tapping into the existing bathroom circuit somewhere.

[Bob]

14/2 on a 20 amp breaker??

Bob

another amp

14/2 wire

the existing

[Joseph Meehan]

No. That 20 amp breaker is designed to protect 12 gauge or larger wire. It is also not code.

BTW 15 gauge ???? Are you sure it is not 14?

[Usernet User]

Oops. I meant 14 gauge wire on a 20amp circuit.

There is only one 20 receptable on the bathroom circuit. The only use of that is probably just hair dryer. So adding a 100W light should be no problem.

Now if the bulp is on a lamp, you might be able to use a 18 gauge wire (to connect to an outlet). But when it is ceiling light, you have to make the wire 12 gauge. Why?

UU

[Jay]

Typically because the lamp will have a sticker saying "Use 75W or less" or some such override.

BTW, don't put a 20A breaker on 14/2 wire. Burning houses really suck...

Jay Bird

Usernet User wrote:

[Curmudgeon]

Maybe I misunderstood. He HAS 12/2 running from the breaker to the outlet. He asked if he could run 14/2 from the outlet to a 100 watt light bulb. It may not be code but I would think it's real unlikely to burn down a house!

[Joseph Meehan]

Maybe it will not burn the house down, but it is against code, it is less safe, it is bad form and all to save what $2.58?

[Usernet User]

I am in the process of finishing the basement, and used up all the

250ft 12/2 and is 10ft short of that. I have plenty of 14/2 left.So that is why I was thinking to use 14/2 for the bathroom 20amp circuit.

Now the only real danger I can think of is when a future owner want to change the light nox to, say a heater/light combo, and uses more amps than what 14/2 can handle. That might cause a problem.

Anyway, if that is against code (which was my original question), I am not going to do it. I'll just buy another box of 12/2.

UU

[Edwin Pawlowski]

It is cheaper to buy by the box, but if you only need 10 feet, go to Home Depot or a good hardware store and they will cut what you want. Ed

[Doug Miller]

And that circuit has a 20A breaker. Which means that using 14-gauge wire

*anywhere* in the circuit is a code violation.

[zxcvbob]

Some 14 gauge wire can handle 20A if it is in conduit instead of made up into cable, but the electric code doesn't let you do it and I don't know why. Not enough margin for error? You're probably using NM-B or armored cable, so it's a moot point. The 14 gauge cable is only rated for 15 amps. You would think you could use 14 gauge wire for a lighting tap on a 20A circuit, but you can't because you don't know if some idiot will later extend that tap to several more lights and a ceiling bathroom heater and exhaust fan, and 2 outlets in the next room ;-)

The *fixture* wires can be 16 or 18 gauge (probably 105 degrees wire) because they can't be extended to another outlet. If you look closely, the fixture has a UL or CSA label somewhere, and the fixture wires are part of the fixture. Someone has tested it to make sure the wire is big enough.

Best regards, Bob

[Tom Horne]

If condensation from the shower forms on the bulb and it shatters from the uneven cooling following which the filament holders short out drawing excessive current do you want the breaker to open or that undersized fourteen gauge wire to act as a fuse and burn up inside your wall or ceiling?

What is so dam difficult about using twelve gauge wire? Are you trying to save a buck, as in one dollar or less, by using the undersized cable? The reason that the lamp cord can be so much smaller is that it's entire length is available for inspection and if you have the brains God gives an idiot you will repair it if it starts to deteriorate. You have no way of watching over the condition of a cable that you install in a wall or ceiling that is the breakers job.

I was called out in the middle of the night by an elderly women who had a light in her basement ceiling that wouldn't go off. When I got to the house the light turned out to be a piece of lamp cord that was glowing in the dark. It had been used to supply an outlet that when it was installed was only used for a reading lamp or table radio. It was now supplying an air conditioner because the elderly occupant didn't know what her deceased husband had done. Right now you plan on a single bulb. The next occupant may convert that outlet to a radiant ceiling heater that draws between one and two thousand watts. If the cable is twelve gauge the breaker will open on the overload and no damage will occur. If the cable is fourteen gauge the cable could short out and start a fire.

You don't like our answers and want someone to bless your half baked installation. Fine. It's your families lives your risking do what you please. I'm an electrician but I'm also a volunteer fire fighter. I have carried out people who were burned beyond recognition and little children that looked like they were just asleep. What they all had in common was being dead. One of every ten structure fires in the US is of electrical origin. USE THE NUMBER TWELVE AMERICAN WIRE GAUGE CABLE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY. Yes I was screaming at you.

-- Tom Horne

[Tom Horne]

You can buy the ten feet of cable for that installation by the foot at any home center.

-- Tom H

[Chuck]

[Joseph Meehan]

If I remember correctly, that in NOT in a conduit, but in free air and if I remember correctly that is acceptable via code. However, my memory is far from great.

[Joseph Meehan]

Tom has a right to be a little uneasy. A lot of fires are started by someone who cheats the code. People do die. It is just totally foolish to cheat the code because you think you know better. The code is NOT a guide it is a rule and should be treated as such.

[Jay]

If that is the case (that the 14/2 is only a branch off a 12/2 circuit), I agree. A light is no big deal.

Now the scare tactic (which worked for me when I did some upgrades a few years back): If it passes code/ispection, great. You are golden and saved $5 worth of 12/2 (and the major hassle of working with 12/2 versus

14/2 :+).

However, if your house does burn down, and the 14/2 "illegal" branch is found, the insurance company may be able to void you claim as you had illegal wire and did not meet code.

Or someone taps from the light in the future with 12/2 (obviously it is a 20A circuit).

Also, I do not know the NEC that well. It may be perfectly legal to run a branch off a 20A circuit with 14/2 as long as that branch is to a light only.

Jay

PS: My advice (worth the price you are pay> Maybe I misunderstood. He HAS 12/2 running from the breaker to the outlet.

[Jay]

I think I have at least 20 feet leftover in my garage. You are welcome to it! :+)

(I hate working with 12/2. Stiff crap compared to 14/2.)

Jay

Edw>>not going to do it. I'll just buy another box of 12/2.

[Conase]

I have been following the thread about using 14 guage wire for a new bath lite on an existing 12 guage circuit.

I see the points about someone else in the future removing the lite and putting in a bath lite/heater combination and causing a fire, etc.

Thru ignorance over the past 30 years, I am guilty of doing this. Maybe 33 years ago the NEC code was different and allowed this.

With all the controversy :

1) WHY do they even make 14 guage wire if it is the problem it can be ?

2) Would it not make more sense to just sell 12 guage and ELIMINATE all the bullsh*t ?

3) Is 14 guage sold simply due to the $$$ factor ??

TIA