As of today, I know for certain that the pump is bad (or a wire shorted in the well). It wont start anymore and it blows the circuit breaker. I located another well driller and had him come for an estimate. He opened the control box and said the overload protector was almost hot enough to light a cigarette. I felt it, and it sure was. He said the pump may have seized up, or pump motor has bad windings, or there could be a barespot on the cable. Either way, it all has to be pulled. His estimate was better than the first one I got, but still quite high if you ask me.
Even if I add $400, your price would be about $1000 less than what I'm being quoted, and you have double the depth of mine and a 1.5hp pump v/s my 1 hp. However, you reused your pipe and wire. My estimate is for both of them new. I asked them if they could reuse the pipe, if they would. They said they would, or maybe just the clean stuff above the water line. As far as the wire, by code, they must install grounded wire now, but said that if my wire was in real good shape, they would reuse it, but if there is even one wear spot, they wont. (I'm sure they'll find something wrong with it).
What surprises me, is that they need to install #10 wire. I'm almost sure what I have is #12, and I know for sure that the wire feeding the control box from the breaker is a #12. It's a 20A dual 220v breaker.
An example of why the US has such low science and math scores.
Yes, how much of the pipe is submerged and subjected to bouyant forces is a factor. But so is the amount of water in the pipe that is ABOVE the water level. Unless you're going to claim that a pipe that is empty weighs the same as pipe that is full of water.
Basicly, the part of the pipe below the water has a buoyant force on it that approximately cancels out the weight of the water inside the pipe. It would exactly cancel it if the water volume inside the pipe equalled the water displaced. But it does not because you also have the volume of the metal of the pipe.
The water in the pipe above the water line adds directly to the weight that must be lifted.
just to play devils advocate, strictly to prep you for a really bad day:( and I hope this doesnt occur!.
that pump has been in place for 40 years.
what if you try pulling the pump and the pipe breaks? Perhaps the well has collapsed:( nation and world wide we have had a lot of earthquakes....
Are you prepared to fund a new well?
If you try pulling it yourself and things break the well driller may not be able to get up whats left of things and recommend a new well, to say 400 feet.. you might want to kick yourself wondering if a pro would of gotten it up OK?
Are you positively absolutely sure the Motor is bad? Is there any possibility of rewiring at the surface to make it run backwards? Or maybe hook up your air compressor and put some back pressure on it. Be a shame to pull it and find it was jammed up by a pebble that coulda been expelled by reversing it or forcing air backwards thru it. Probability may not be high, but the potential reward is great.
A time domain reflectometer might help determine if and where the cable is shorted. Cable TV guys and phone guys use 'em all the time to find the distance to a short. Be a shame to pull it and find the short was two feet down.
When your business is pulling pipe out of wells, everything looks like it needs the pipe pulled. As an unbiased observer, you have more diagnostic options.
Volume in cubic inches equals Pi X .75 X.75 X length in inches. I figured up how much water the plumbing in a house would hold. Its amazing how little water it takes to fill the pipes.
" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Used slide rules in high school, or perhaps in undergrad a bit. Calculators were becoming the norm back in the middle 60's. My computer is aiding me in forgeting simple math in my head ...
Exactly. If using iron pipe it is unscrewed one joint at a time, usual y 20' but 10' sections are also seen. Of couse modern wells lusually use plasttict which is passed over a wheel and stretched along the ground.
But you still have to lift that section of pipe, water and all. The length of interest (for calculating the water's weight) is the length from the well lever to the maximum pull height. IOW, the water doesn't drain out of the pipe as it's lifted, as suggested.
"The water in the pipe above the water line adds directly to the weight that must be lifted. "
To which you replied:
"Water above the well head drains out as the pipe is lifted."
To which I rpelied:
How does that happen with a check valve at the submersible pump?
To which you replied:
"Did you think a couple hundred feet of pipe stands straight up in the air? The water drains out the _open_ end of the pipe of course. "
I think you, KRW and I are all in agreement on the physics. Where this first went wrong was with you suggesting that draining of the water was a factor. I was never thinking of water remaining in the whole pipe as it's being pulled. Only water in the pipe that is still in the well. That seemed to be the focus of the thread, the weight of the assembly being pulled out of the well and I think everyone agrees that as a section is removed, neither the weight of that pipe nor it's contents are a factor. The water in the pipe inside the well above the water line does add directly to the weight being lifted, which was my comment that you seemed to disagree with.
I then made the mistake of thinking you meant water draining out of the pipe that was still in the well, hence my comment about the check valve preventing that. But I think we are all in agreement that:
A - The pipe is indeed removed a section at a time and once removed it's not a weight factor
B - The water inside the pipe, between the water line and the top of the pipe at or above the wellhead adds to the weight being lifted.
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