On 11/9/2011 5:44 AM, snipped-for-privacy@myplace.com wrote: ...
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As others said, it'll add another 200 lb+/-
But, you're forgetting about what the breakout force will be; the snubbers and that it's been sitting in place for however long means the initial friction forces will likely be close to that of half the weight or perhaps even more. I don't think you have any chance w/ your front loader in a direct lift; not to mention the hassle of trying to deal with such a rube goldberg setup.
" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Hey, I'm retired. May I have a senior moment? I still think that metric is easier for this kind of thing. Formulae for circumference, surface and volume should be imprt=inted on my brain, but this time ...
On 11/9/2011 6:36 AM, Han wrote: ...
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How so much? What's pi in metric units? :)
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Is the OP CERTAIN, its a bad pump? or has the water table fallen? or a myriad of other possibilties, like a cracked or rusted out main pipe......
best wishes on your project but plan in advance for gotchas.....
like the well collapsed on the pump
have the financing inorder for a entire new well
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... I believe this would be a metric pi:
That sounds much more reasonable. I just got a second estimate for $2800. Better than the first one, but still seems quite high. The pump is a 1 HP, down approx 300ft. This new estimate is everything new, pump, pipe, fittings, control box. They said they would try to save some of the old pipe if possible, and can put plastic pipe below the good steel pipe, but it's hard to know what is needed. They insist the wire be replaced because the new code requires 4 wires now (a ground wire is added).
I was just informed that the drop pipe is actually inch and a quarter, not inch and a half. That takes off a few pounbut I know the initial breaking loose the pitless and all that is gonna be tough.
Thomas J. Glover's Pocket Ref. Sequoia Press. More than you want to know about "stuff". And very handy.
Steve
I must admit my well guys work amazingly cheap so I'd add about $400 to my price for a more realistic comparison. Most likely anyone who drills wells will be higher priced, repairs are stuff they don't like to be bothered with.
dpb wrote in news:j9eslf$ms$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:
lol
I retired five years ago, but didn't like it so went back to work. I was retired earlier this year but I'm still too young to do it permanently, so...
Metric is easier if the inputs and output are in metric. Imperial is easier if the units are imperial, as in this case. Converting is just asking for trouble. Ask NASA. ;-)
Certainly not! That would be an imperial pie.
I'd worry more about what you're gonna do when the pipe breaks.
Please explain. Thought experiment: Assume no friction. Drain the water outa the pipe. Pull up on the pipe to raise it off the supports. Weigh the pipe. Pour a pound of water into the pipe. Weigh it again. Does the weight not increase by a pound?
What counts is the water displaced by the pipe below the water level. Contents of the pipe does not affect that.
Good point. Because of the depth, You'd need a pump that could be lowered down into the 1.5" pipe. Or maybe a lot of trips with a sponge, or a hollow cup. or a 1: plastic pipe with a check valve on the end. ;-)
" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
I can see that, but I'm 67 now, and I had my fill of certain aspects of my position, so I will not likely unretire .
Grew up in Hlland, so metric is more natural, really, although imperial has grown on me the last 42 years ...
What I like about metric is the powers of 10 rather than funny factors (12"/ft, whatever cubic inches/gal, 11 sq feet/m^2, whatever). also, in my educatgion it was really important to get the powers of 10 (orders of magnitude) straight. Sometimes I am good at that, too .
If your bucket lifts 1000lbs you have two (or three) other things to consider. The pivot action of the bucket tilting up is probably well over 1000lbs. of force. That should be enough to break it loose. Also, you could remove the heavy bucket and put something else across the arms to use to lift with. Now seriously, if I were going to attempt something like this I would be buying the proper tool to both hold the pipe in between lifts, and the proper tool to attach to lift it with. Don't know if it was mentioned, but if the well isn't dry you also have the buoyancy of the water so the whole thing won't weigh as much.
Another very important thing to keep in mind. While working, if that thing slips and lets loose, the wire is going to be moving fast down the well. If your foot or hand were to get tangled in it, you could loose it. If it happened to jump around and get around your chest, we could loose you!
Certainly. All of the water is now above the well's water line. It's not displacing the equivalent well water. It's not "floating".
To be accurate, one could also subtract the weight of the water the pipe is displacing, too.
W(pipe) = Pi(Ro^2-Ri^2)*D*L Where Ro = outer radius of pipe Ri = inner radius of pipe D = Density of pipe L = Lenght of submerged section
No, what counts is the water *above* the well's water line. If the pipe were full of air it would "float" on the well's water. That is, it would be
*lighter* by the equivalent of the weight of the water that would be in the pipe (minus the small weight of the air).
I'm 59, so... I could actually retire now, or retire later and have a lot more money to spend. ;-)
I'm an engineer and use both equally. I have a neat little applet on my desktop to do the weird conversions, when necessary (ConvCalc).
When I was in college, slide rules were the rule. ;-) Powers of 10 mattered, since I could do most calculations in my head, with just a few flicks of the fingers. Since I switched to calculators 38 years ago, that skill has atrophied to where I'm pretty much dependent on them; entering a few more numbers doesn't slow me down. ...and I'm not old enough that remembering them is a problem. ;-)
I don't buy it! The PIPE is experiencing buoyancy forces. What's inside the pipe is irrelevant as long as the pipe contents doesn't change the position of the pipe relative to the water in the well. As you raise the pipe, it will take more force because of the reduced buoyancy. Still, the change is unrelated to what's in the pipe. It's all about the displacement of the PIPE.
The system weight will include the weight of the included water.
Here's another thought experiment: Drain the pipe and set up to weigh it as before. Pour in a pound of water. Insert a bladder at the 20 foot level and blow it up to seal the opening. Position is arbitrary as long as it's above the water level on the outside of the pipe. Weigh the pipe.
Drain the pipe again. Put in the bladder at the 20 foot level to seal the pipe. Pour in a pound of water. Convince me that the weight (force to lift the system off its support) depends on where the water is in the pipe.
The more I think about it, I think we're in heated agreement.
I calculated the maximum weight of the water if the pipe were full. What matters is the actual volume of water in the pipe.
I neglected the separate opposing force of buoyancy due to the volume of external water displaced by the pipe (and the pump). As the pipe is raised out of the water, that force goes to zero. The weight of water inside the pipe is unchanged...unless there's a leak, in which case, the original amount of water in the pipe is irrelevant.
You don't buy simple physics?
Exactly.
If there was nothing in the pipe it would weigh exactly as much as the pipe alone. If there is water in the pipe it weighs as much as the pipe + water. Obviously what's inside matters.
Now, stick it in water. Same thing.
You'e only lifting the water that's above the well level. Water lower than that is neutral.
Wrong. If there were air in the pipe it would be lighter, lead, heavier.
No, the water matters, but only that above the well level. The weight of the water in the pipe below that level is canceled by the water in the well (water weighs the same as water).
Only above the well level. Below that, the weight of the water in the pipe is canceled by the water in the well. You're only lifting the water above the well level.
A pound is a pound. It's not *where* the water is. It's how much you're lifting. You're not lifting water below the well level. That's a wash.
Which you've lost. ;-)
..ad wasn't supported by any water in the well. The real weight will be reduced by the weight of the water in the pipe below the well level *PLUS* the weight of the pipe below that level minus the weight of that volume of water.
No, only the water actually being lifted. The water in the pipe below the well level is a wash, since it has the same weight as the equivalent volume of well water.
It's now above water, so it counts. That which is still below the well level doesn't.
The volume of the pipe (and water in the pipe) below the water has changed, though.
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