retired1 snipped-for-privacy@home.usa wrote in news:Y- snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
So even though the refill tube is not far enough down the overflow tube to touch water, the siphoning is at the base of the filler valve?
Because it was "too far" down the overflow , there was enough water in the little tube to start the siphon action.
Once it starts, water is pulled from the main refill pipe, and sent down the overflow pipe, that then sends the water under the flapper, just like it does normally to refill the bowl, while the tank is refilling.
The little tube should not be in the overflow any more than necessary to have its water enter the overflow pipe.
Recent refill tubes I've seen have a 90 degree elbow, and a clip to hold it at the top of the overflow pipe.
BTW, is it possible that the main refill valve shutoff point is higher than it needs to be ?
Our main bathroom toilet will go for weeks without a hiccup . Then for no apparent reason the flapper will seep for a day or three . Not much , about every 3-4 hours . Then , like magic it will go .. for weeks without a hiccup . I think it's just messin' with me .
I have never found it necessary to replace that seal, or to separate the tank from the toilet, except for disposal.
All it has to be below is the water level of the tank. water goes through it during the refill, and the siphon continues after the water shuts off until the flow is so low that air can work it's way back up the tube.
We had a one piece toilet when I was little. This was before Toto existed. It was also very quiet, even compared to most toilets which aren't that loud to begin with. The tank was very short and, looked at from the top, shaped like a dog-bone biscuit. They made them for a long time but I'm not sure if they survived the lets-not-waste-water fetish.
I replace both of my two-piece with one-piece back in 1995. Kohlers. One was elongated, comfort height. They're both still working perfectly.
I have a partial answer mixed with partial confusion:
It never mattered (at least not much**) whether the end end*** of a siphon tube was in, below the level of, the pool of liquid it was siphoning to, or not. What matters is whether the end of the siphon tube, is lower than the liquid level of the source pool. And that there is liquid in end of the tube that is also lower than the liquid level of the source pool****. If both of these are true, siphoning will start and once the siphoning starts it will continue.
***As opposed to the beginning (end).**I guess it matters a little because if the end is under water, it's harder, impossible, for air to get into the siphon tube from that end. So if there's a short (or long?) interruption at the start end, the water doesn't drain out of the tube and get replaced by air, and I think that means siphoning will restart again as soon as the interruption is remedied.
****Uusually people fill the tube from one end to the other, so this is not a question.
My confusion is that apparently I don't rmeember where the refill tube starts. And I thought the refill bowl process ended at the very same time the refill tank process ended, when the float got high enough. So if the tank water is high enough to turn off the refilling of the tank, why is there any water available to the refill (bowl) tube. Didn't the same valve stop both when it closed? The start of that refill tube is not the water in the tank, it's the water line from the wall. So how can it siphon anything from anywhere, ever?
The water entering the tank valve flows in near the bottom of the tank to avoid spashing. The refit hose is tapped off that path, to dribble a small about of the refill water to refill the bowl. So, water can be siphoned by a too long refill hose, coming from near the bottom of the toilet.
I'll have to go look at my toilet. It's been running too and I've tried
3 times to fix it. Three is usually my limit.As to flappers, when I first bought a house in 1983, I was going to be a great house owner, and I wanted my toilets to always be clean. So I bought 1000 Flushes for each of them, and in a few days there were black rings around the bowl and I think the toilets were running too, or I thought they soon would be. I wrote to 1000 Flushes and they refunded my money and paid for 3 flappers.
I had no trouble buying new flappers but a few years later, the one that fit was available nowhere, it seemed. Strange since it was a popular brand and a contractor toilet. But when I found a real hardware store that had it, I bought a case, 24. 8 per toilet and if I lived 64 more years, that would give me enough for one per toilet every 4 years, so I was good for life. (Maybe I only bought 12 and I was only good for 32 years.)
This time the flappers lasted much, much longer and I'm wondering if flappers that are 35 years old NIB are going to leak off the bat. You can't win.
On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 14:20:02 -0700 (PDT), Dean Hoffman posted for all of us to digest...
Maybe the flapper seat is compromised? Is the chain set properly? Are you sure the filler tube is not below the fill line? Peer down the fill tube when the flush is completed, if any water is in there that is bad. Is the water level set properly? That's all I can think of right now. Let us know fixes it. There are a few videos on U tube that address this subject.
retired1 snipped-for-privacy@home.usa wrote in news:1YCdnWN0j7e9qWD5nZ2dnZfqn snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
I just realized that I didn't reply. Your explanation was correct. I reaised the refill hose that was within the refill tube such that it was above the water level in the tank, and all was well. I was amazed. I was about to get a new toilet, but now everything works like it has for
45 years.Thanks much!
I have two of the same brand of toilet. One was slowly leaking out of the flapper, and when I checked the other that flapper was badly worn and about to leak too. I can't buy the seal disc locally without buying the whole replacement kit, so I ordered a couple of seals from Amazon and tried the trick of vaseline on the leaking disc until they came.
It's been a couple of weeks and neither toilet is leaking at all. But I know what to do when it happens. <smiley>
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