On Saturday, July 19, 2014 12:50:50 PM UTC-4, H o m e G u y wrote:
What a buffoon. You especially have to love how he cites as a reference
a guy that gives advice close to what many others here, including I said.
Which is that aerating followed by gypsum will help. Yet the ignoramus
somehow turns that completely around and bleets out "Your lawn will look
like swiss cheese! You might as well rototill it all up"
Just some of the highly credible experts who also say HomeLessGuy once
again doesn't know what he's talking about:
HomeLEssGuy, I hear HD has Ready-to-USe Roundup, which you told us you
like to buy at $20 a gallon, because it's a good deal, waiting for you.
Yes indeed, lawn advice from a guy who buys RTU roundup. That speaks volumes about knowledge, experience and good judgement.
You may (or may not) be the world's greatest authority on lawns but there is
no reason to be so rude regardless of your expertise. Try and learn from
those who know more and teach those who know less without struting your ego
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A better world requires a daily struggle
against those who would mislead us.
Stupid move, Tony. You're deluding yourself.
In areas that get sub-freezing in winter (like most of Canada) the many
cycles of frost heaving (freeze-thaw) in winter does a great job of
breaking up residential soil.
Think about it.
Just look what it does to our roads, and imagine what is going on in the
Is english your second language?
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
Look again at what that guy said:
He says "I think". He thinks gypsum can help. His entire slant is that
it's a crap shoot to use gypsum that way to improve an existing lawn.
He also said this:
Which is what I also said and for which NOBODY ELSE has said.
I dare you to explain how your lawn wouldn't look like swiss cheese
========> FOUR inches deep. Take note of that. Half inch to 3/4 diam, NO MORE
Yes - it was a good deal, because I've already told you that retail
availability of concentrated Roundup is not available to me - but you've
got a short attention span and probably dementia as well.
Also - the 5-liter hand-pump sprayer the Roundup came in now functions
very well as the applicator for the concentrated mix of Ortho Weed B Gon
that I now use.
How many times are you going to keep beating that horse to death?
Do you know how stupid you look harping on that silly point, a point you
*think* you hold the logical high-ground on?
On Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:17:57 AM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
No but clearly you do, because the guy didn't say that aeration
followed by gypsum would not help. Idiot.
Obviously you've never done core aeration, so how would you even know?
And it's supposed to look a bit like swiss cheese, that's precisely the
point, idiot. Is your web browser broken:
I'd suggest it's you who's the idiot, otherwise you'd have figured out
you can also buy Roundup online from many sources and it would cost
you 20 or 50 times less. But hey, continue to buy it at prices equal
to paint, because you *are* the village idiot.
Yeah, I'm sure it's a real gem. OF course for the same or less, you could
have bought a 2 gallon tank sprayer that's a hell of a lot better and filled
it up for 50 cents.
As many times as I feel like seeing the monkey dance.
Plugs are NOT removed, they are extracted and returned to the lawn.
Plug aeration is a mild form of tilling that doesn't disturb the turf,
an excellent practice for ALL established lawns. I do not recommend
aeration for non-lawns, then rototilling with added amendments is
highly recommended. Aerating poor soil will not improve it, may even
make poor soil worse by accelerating erosion.
Frost heaving may break up pavement but does nothing to improve
compacted soil, in fact when it finally dries it will be more
compacted. In spring as soon as soil is friable is the best time to
till/aerate before soil dries. Garden soil is not pavement.
A simple search of the effects of freeze-thaw cycles on soil quickly
gave me this:
=================Secondary Frost Heave in Freezing Soils by Christopher Noon
A thesis submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy
University of Oxford
Frost heave is responsible for numerous environmental problems including
damage to roads, pavements and the foundations of buildings. Other less
obvious problems are caused by the weakening of ground when a frozen
soil, especially one which has heaved, thaws. This occurs because frost
heave and freezing of soil in general, induces a moisture flow up
towards the freezing front thereby increasing its frozen water content
and dramatically decreasing the frozen soils permeability due to a
decrease in water fraction and the presence of ice lenses. Thawing
occurs naturally from the soil surface downwards and hence the thawed
soil can become saturated causing it to suffer a complete loss of
Anyone who lives in (at least) the northern 1/3 of the US and all of
Canada knows that when walking on your lawn in April (or in May in
Canada) when the last of the snow has melted from your front or back
lawns knows how spongy the ground feels.
It is a complete crock of shit to think that aerating your lawn does
anything to "break up" or "loosen" your soil under those conditions.
And take a look at this:
=====================Myth #2: You Need to Aerate Your Lawn Every Year
Aerating is hard work that requires expensive machinery. Fortunately,
you may not have to do it. Aeration is helpful when your lawn has a lot
of foot traffic that compacts the soil. Also, if you have a lot of
thatch, or if you need to amend the soil, you may want to aerate. If
not, save yourself some time and money, not to mention an aching back.
Myth #3: Gypsum Aerates Your Lawn
Somebody made a lot of money with this one. If you spread gypsum on your
lawn, you'll end up with some very nice pebbles, but not an aerated
Thatch removal or management is frequently mentioned as a byproduct of
core aeration. What is never mentioned is that if you always bag and
remove your grass clippings, you'll never have a thatch problem (and all
associated problems that come from harboring various turf insects and
And to some degree the raking of the plugs that happens by people who
take more of an interest in lawn care and succumb to the placebo effect
of thinking their lawns looks better after coring are really just seeing
the effect of thatch removal which can make an early spring lawn look
He also said (and which you, like the intellectual coward that you are,
did not quote):
Do you not understand that when someone says "I think" that they're just
parroting the so-called typical practice and they themselves have not
seen it work first-hand?
I've seen how the scammers do it, and it's nothing even close to what
the so-called expert described.
It's not how most people *think* they need to do it to have the desired
Shipping alone would cost me $20 for a 1 or 2 lb package, and I'm not
even sure that there are online retailers who will ship Roundup within
(or to) Canada.
What kind of jack ass are you exactly that keeps thinking I need a
barrel full of Roundup?
20 times less than $20 is what - $1 ?
So with all costs factored in, you keep foolishly asserting that I could
have bought all the roundup that *I need* for a grand total of One
Dollar? (and no - my neighbors have no need for the stuff).
The only jack ass around here is you - and you prove it with every post.
Obviously like many of your countrymen you're so dirt poor that you take
every opportunity to froth at the mouth at how you can save a buck.
Some of us can afford the conveinence of pre-mixed chemicals like
Roundup. So get over it.
On Sunday, July 20, 2014 12:36:37 PM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
Do you not understand that if you believe some "expert" is just parroting
something and don't have first-hand experience, that you shouldn't be
using them as a reference? Good grief.
Obviously what scammers do has nothing to do with doing the job
correctly. Following your logic, because you see scammers doing a
crap job painting a house, that;s an indictment against painting your
house. Go figure.
I have no way of knowing what "most" people think about aeration. Neither
do you, nor does it matter.
How can that be in that utopia of a country, Canada? And even if it's
true, if you do the math, you'd still be getting it at 20 to 40 times less
cost than buying ready-to-use Roundup.
Correct, I can see you can do math.
No, I just said you have to be an idiot to buy ready-to-use. It's
orders of magnitude worse than buying ready-to-use antifreeze.
So, you do buy ready-to-use antifreeze too! It's not that you can afford
it, it's that you're the village idiot! Great idea. Take tips on core
aeration from a guy that buys ready-to-use Roundup. Good grief.
Grass roots don't really grow much below 2" anyways. Just look at rolls
of sod. They certainly don't come 2" thick (with soil).
Lawns need almost daily watering when the daily high temp reaches 80
unless except on overcast days - then maybe you can go 4 days without
Forget aerating. Have a yard of black earth / top-soil delivered and
rake it evenly all over, and throw in some grass seed while you're at
it. THAT is by far the most accepted way to deal with poor sub-soil
conditions without completely replacing the top 4" of soil.
And then you need to water.
But you haven't said anything about your ability to irrigate this patch
of grass. What municipal water restrictions are you under currently -
now and for the next few months?
I can't connect to that link for some reason - probably super slow
Anyway, I'm thinking about putting something together that will take 1/2
x 4-inch plugs up. I don't know if this is what you mean -- the one
plug pushes out the previous plug. I'm only looking for the kind that
removes plugs - not spikes.
Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This
was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid
roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard
surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid
on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.
This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Would be nice to have grass
there, but being dirt is OK, and not worth renting anything. A few
years ago I had to put ground cover on a bare compacted clay hill. I
ended up getting a 5/8-inch masonry bit and drilling 4-inch holes about
6-8 inches apart, dropping red apple ice plant pieces in and filling
with good soil. Nearly all survived and within a year the hill was
While it used to be quite common to plant ice plant on a slope, the
recommendation today is very much against that. During a rain, ice
plant takes up much water and becomes quite heavy. The roots tend to be
shallow and not very extensive. The result is that the ice plant will
often pull loose, slide down the hill, and take part of the hill with it.
I am very sensitive about proper planting of slopes since the hill in my
back yard has slipped twice. The second time, the repair cost almost
four times what I paid for my house; my grandchildren will make the last
payment on the federal disaster loan. No, there is no such thing as
insurance against a slope failing; and the repairs are never guaranteed.
Grape vines are very good on a hill; they have very tough, deep roots
and generally do not care how poor is the soil. Alone, African daisies
or ivy (English or Algerian) are not good because their roots tend to
form a mat that can become a weak layer; African daisies and ivy mixed
together, however, are excellent on a hill because those mats are at
different depths and tend to be less concentrated.
According to the grading experts in my county's public works agency,
trees on a hill can be bad. In a wind, they rock back and forth,
breaking up the soil around the bases of the trunks. With a major rain
storm, that becomes a path for a large amount of water to funnel down to
the subsoil. Depending on their alignment, this can lubricate the
boundary between soil and subsoil and trigger a slide. On the other
hand, shrubs are okay.
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
Thanks, HG. Only restrictions so far are what I do anyway - no
watering between 9am-5pm or hose down sideways, etc. Unfortunately, the
talk is that the cut back will be 20% less than we used 12 months
previous. So folks like us who are very conservative with water will
likely end up paying penalties. Meanwhile the swimming pool crowd down
the street will only have to stop pumping so much overflow into the
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