You seem to know more than everyone else, as this is all true. It's complicated how any one shop charges the time. But that's not what I'm asking.
I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
Yes. I know about this where you explained it well that there is a flat rate for the water pump, and a flat rate for the timing belt, but if you do them both, then there are two ways to calculate the flat rate.
I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
You seem to understand the flat rate the best. The only thing I'd clarify is the "win" just means he *beat* the time. He still gets paid what he should if he does the job in the flat rate time.
I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists. (I understand that it may not exist online - that's why I asked.)
Exactly.
Of course.
I understand that most shops just add it all up. That's OK. I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
I'll take either time.
I'll assume "factory time" is shorter than "Chilton time".
That's exactly what I'm seeking. a. Time b. Online
I'm ok with any units that equate to the time you multiply times the shop rate.
So if it's in labor units, that's fine since that equates to average time anyway.
But does it exist online?
I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
The original question asks for a database *online* for the shop hours for any given job.
I know Mitchells has it in paper manuals but I'm seeking an *online* source.
I just want the flat rate time. Online. If it exists.
I am only asking about time. Online.
Good luck with that. I'd like to be there to watch.
they pay the mechanic approx. $25 Hr yet charges over $125
I would bet that mechanics at a dealer that's charging $125 an hour are making more than $25. Then they also have all those service advisers. The BMW dealer here has half a dozen, at least. I'll bet they are commission, making sure to recommend the max service possible. They have to get paid. I'm not too happy with the rates charged by the stealership either, but I don't see much we can do about it. I used to use a independent decades ago, when they were substantially less both in labor rate and parts cost. But they jacked their rates up to with $10 of the dealer hourly rate and they put the BMW part # on the bill, God only knows if it's a real BMW part or aftermarket. They used to use aftermarket and charge less. I concluded that since the indy works on all kinds of cars, but charges almost the same as the dealer, you're better off going to the dealer. Presumably the mechanics there see more of your particular car, have more experience, better diagnostics, etc. If they fix it in 3 hours instead of 4 or
5 at an indy, you wind up saving money.
What exactly is your complaint? $90 to diagnose a blown engine doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I guess if it came in with a connecting rod sticking out and oil pouring out, then it would be excessive. I'd do that one for free. But otherwise, $90 seems OK to me.
Yes I am fully aware that some mechanics easily *beat* that flat rate time and some mechanics take *longer* than that flat rate time - but the mechanics still charge at the same flat rate time.
Yes. I am fully aware that to do a waterpump takes X flat rate time and to do a timing belt takes Y flat rate time and do to them both does NOT take X
Yes. I am fully aware that some shops still charge the X flat rate time plus the Y flat rate time, while others charge X flat rate time plus some-fraction-of Y flat rate time.
I'm fully aware of all this. None of that is the question.
I wasn't aware that there is "dealer" flat rate time and "factory" flat rate time, but that's just a complication that I can deal with depending on what flat rate time I do find online.
What I don't know is WHERE to get the flat rate time online. It might not exist online.
But that's why I ask.
Did you google flat rate manual ?
this is the 5th hit for me:
As little as $55 if your car was made in 1977 or earlier
$112 for 2005.
Though I do wonder about this, 2005 Child Labor Guide CD-ROM
In the 60's, all there was was the book, and I had no idea where to get that, or how to pay the equivalent of $880
I said what I was talking about, that since they've heard the noise before, it probably only took a minute, maybe 10, to diagnose the car. When I asked for details, they said "There's something broken inside the engine. It would cost money to find out what."
Me too.
But I thought both used the flat rate manual and both charged the same number of hours.
Anyhow, 2 years ago after I replaced the right half-axle, right ball joint, right rotor, and one other part, I took the car to the dealer for wheel alignment, on the theory he could do the best job. He even had an offer that made him as cheap as Firestone. (That alone should have made me suspicious.) They told me that I needed right and left CV boots, even though the right boot had only 50 miles on it, and the left boot was perfect too. They said I had a major oil leak, even though I didn't have to add any oil in the next 3000 miles. And they told me a bunch of other crap they claimed needed repair.
While most shops have "insurance" rules that you're not allowed where the cars are fixed, they still let you in, show you the problem on the car, before it's fixed. But the dealer makes you park the car in one place and they drive it 80 yards to another place with 30 bays. No way to see your own car or even talk to the actual mechanic. Instead they have some pretty girl dispense the crap, so if she can be proven wrong, she can say she misunderstood the mechanic. What a racket.
That was my first time at a dealer and I'm never going again.
Those charges piss me off. Sure, they are real costs but so is insurance, lighting, the water bill. It should be included in the shop rate. They don't charge me different depending on whether or not the mechanic had to flush the toilet while working on my car.
Most dealers have those charges built in as a percentage of the charges, not based on actual use. Give me the rags and I'll take them to dispose of them.
Maybe. The Buick dealer tried to charge me a diagnostic fee to tell me my heated seat did not work. Hey, that's why I came here and told you what the problem was. They just built in a 1 hour diagnostic time for every trip in. That and other problems made it the last GM car I ever owned.
It sure does, as others have linked. But it's a compendium of data from Chilton's or whoever for which they (rightfully) charge a fee.
Nothing stops you from looking at your watch, doing the job yourself and then looking at your watch again. If you want a more convenient answer, buy a flat-rate manual.
Presumably you get that $90 refunded when you get an engine rebuild, though.
--scott
Not necessarily. Around here, brake jobs are easy. Up in Massachusetts where they salt the roads, brake jobs on the same cars are hellish and take far longer.
Chilton's might have it online, but if so it won't be free. They are not in the business of giving information out for free.
--scott
Here you go.
It will cost you and you may need Proof of Pro and login credentials.
Rene
You didn't say that here in this thread, so I didn't know. What did they tell you about that noise prior to the failure?
it probably only took a minute, maybe 10, to diagnose the car.
Even if it took 10 mins, there is also the overhead of taking calls from you, scheduling it, logging it in. taking your payment. In today's world $90 doesn't seem out of line to me. If I was running a car repair place, that would be my min charge for a diagnosis. I know there are places that will do an initial inspection, estimate for free. But that doesn't make them real good guys or the other guys villains. How about you go to the free tell you what's wrong guy and he tells you there is $1500 worth of stuff that must be fixed, that's either BS or marginal on an older car?
What do you think the minutes incurred actually are, including you calling up, scheduling, then rolling the car into the shop, connecting the diagnostic cable, running the tests? Those tests typically include disconnect the seat cable and connect test cable XYZ. What voltage does the test software now show. If it's under 12V, do this next procedure.... And on it goes. I have the test software for BMW and that is how it. goes. I could easily spend a half hour diagnosing, following their procedure. Then you still have all the other overhead.
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