Is it worth upgrading to High Efficiency furnace?

[Art Begun]

I disagree. Latex paint on the siding will let the vapor breath. The cold air leaking in could cause condensation to form.

siding.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Here in Alberta, if NG price goes over 5.50 per Giga Joule, government makes up after that in the form of direct rebate. It is ~7.50 now. I still pay only 5.50. Isn't it nice?!

[American Mechanical]

????

Based on what? I'm going to have to see some info to support that, many higher efficiency units have variable speed blowers that ramp to speed, reducing blower noise etc. Just don't install a Lennox Pulse if you're concerned with noise, we're not talking Atta-Boy's here! ;-)

- Robert

[George E. Cawthon]

((snipped))

My Amana is 80 percent (if you devide output by input rating) and it sure isn't quiet, so I guess it doesn't qualify as a sealed combustion. The burner is just about as loud as the blower. That's what I meant, the blower. Will probably be in operation more of the time. Total blower time should be longer and even if the blower operates at a lower speed and is quieter at that time much of the time, there is still noise that may be irritating.

[George E. Cawthon]

Based on surmise. You are just considering loudness. I would expect the more efficient furnaces to run the blower more of the time, especially if they use multiple blower speeds. Just because the blower doesn't run at full speed doesn't mean the blower noise isn't irritating and that could be considered more noise, or noise more of the time. I prefer a house to be dead quiet but it seledom is due to the computer and refrigerator, let alone the furnace.

[Noon-Air]

THen you definately don't want a Goodman either

[kevins_news]

A small furnace noise observation: I was quite annoyed with my furnace for the first few months. Sometimes it seemed quiet but quite often there was a rather loud, slow, and pulsing resonant sound coming from it that could be heard through the entire house. At first i thought it was fan noise but strangely enough this would be louder up in the bedroom than when i stood downstairs by the furnace. I eventually just gave up and assumed our ducts were resonating somewhere in the wall.

A few months after that we painted one living room wall and i was up on a ladder near the return air intake. It was a very wide vent (2 feet whereas all the others were 1 or 1.5 feet). Turns out it is the vent cover that was resonating. Not vibrating against the wall or the duct. But resonating itself. I stiffened it up with a piece of wood on the inside and now all is quiet. I have to stick my foot infront of a register to tell if the furnace is running.

[Childfree Scott]

No. Going from a ~80% efficient furnace to maybe a ~92% or 95% furnace isn't going to make that much of a difference to you.

[Art Begun]

One of my 3 furnaces made a terrible rumble when it started up. Couldn't figure it out until I was in the basement standing next to it when it started up and I saw the PVC exhaust pipe vibrating against the gas intake pipe just at startup. A sponge between the 2 solved that problem.

[American Mechanical]

And you would be correct. Most often, the blower may be set to run continuous at about 1/2 capacity allowing moe even comfort.

True, but if the ductwork is sized and installed properly - *TaDa* quiet.

See above ductwork reference and take unit location into account when building. I understood your reference to indicate that you were advising the higher efficiency to be likely louder than the OP's almost new std. eff. That's just not normally the case, IMHO. Oh, and turn on a bit of music, it'll cover up that fridge & computer. ;-)

- Robert

[Steve Scott]

And just exactly where do the government come up with the extra $2.00 per Giga Joule?

[Steve Scott]

There is quite a bit of burner noise on 80& units, especially if they have inshot burners.

I guess it depends >My Amana is 80 percent (if you devide output by input

[Michael Daly]

Not if the siding is aluminum, steel, vinyl etc.

Cold air is usually relatively dry and enters the cold side of the insulation - not much condensation. If there is condensation, having open air flow on that side allows it to dry. I know of designs where architects have specified an air gap at the top and bottom of the cladding to ensure the insulation can breathe on the outside. Both openings covered with fine mesh to keep out the mousies.

Mike

[Art Begun]

I know for a fact that vinyl had weep holes built in. Don't have any experience with metal siding but my guess is that it is designed the same way.

Synthetic stucco is designed now to have a drainage system (in areas of the country that still allow its use). And I'm sure that some other construction designed by architects for a particular project might indeed have drainage at the bottom.

But the instances of regular siding with a big gap at the bottom I've seen have been defects which allowed cold air and bugs to enter. In some cases you could see with an inspection mirror the gaps between sill plates. In my parents townhome, residents have had problems with frozen and burst pipes. I have no doubts that backer rod and caulking the gap would permanently fix the problem. It seems to me that in my area at least, foundations are being made slightly small and the sill plate and framing and sheathing overhang it slightly so the siding can overlap the foundation wall.

having

where

[George E. Cawthon]

My furnace had a very specific annoying sound to it (among all the others noises). It was the flue (exhaust stack) resonating. I put pressure on it and most of the resonance stopped, so I wedged a 3" can between it and the wall. The can provide just the right amount of pressure and prevents heat transfer to the wall. Burner and fan noise is still there but at least that part of the noise virtually disappeared.

[George E. Cawthon]

If the efficency are accurage a 95 percent would result in about 16 percent saving, so if your normal bill is $200, you would save $32 dollars per month for ?6 months? or about $200 per year. Pretty slow pay back. And then you have to figure the mainteance. Is the mainteance for 95 percent furnaces higher than for 80 percent furnaces?

[George E. Cawthon]

Maybe you are thinking of furnaces out in the garage, but ours is in the center of the house it an enclosure, hate to call it a closet. No way is it quiet, or would be quiet regardless of type. Hell, I can hear the hum of the attic fan in certain parts of the house. Music helps but I grew learning to read and study when it was quiet so I'm likely to start listening to the music instead of paying attention to what I am reading. Nothing like reading 2-3 pages then suddenly realize you were listening to the music and have no idea what the word in book were.

[George E. Cawthon]

Probably from the U.S. Canada and the U.S. have a Columbia River treaty and several other agreements about operation of the large reservoirs on the upper Columbia River in B.C. These reservoirs and their operaton provide benefits to the U.S. hydropower generation. The agreements are fairly complex but including paying Canada for the storage benefits to U.S. power generation at Grand Coulee, Chief Joseph, and other dams/powerplants in the U.S. When the reservoir and powerplants were first constructed, Canada wanted flood control but didn't need all of the power, so excess generation was sold to the U.S. as part of agreements.

[George Wenzel]

Alberta has a mainly resource-based economy, so when gas prices go up, so do the royalties earned by the government from oil and gas companies.

Of course, there's always the provincial income tax...

Regards,

George Wenzel

[American Mechanical]

I'm sorry - you are incorrect. If the ductwork is sized properly and installed well you would be amazed. I changed out a unit today, it was in a closet directly off the living room. When I started the unit up, the HO argued with me that it wasn't on. He is extremely pleased with his new variable speed. It sounds as if you need to determine why you have to wedge cans against parts of your system to stop the noise. I'm guessing there are install issues. Best of luck to you it's been fun but if you still insist that higher efficiency units are likely to be louder than standard efficiency units, we must agree to disagree.

- Robert

Music helps but I grew learning to read and