I already had electrical outlets installed prior to sheetrock...

I did not know that.

The electricians I hired were not top rate and there were lots of fumbles.

They told me the usual method is to set the boxes flush with the studs, and then use mud rings to make up the difference between the stud and finished wall. I followed their instructions and ok the work so now all the boxes are flushed with the studs, not easy to move since that's all rigid EMT conduit work.

Some of the boxes have quite a bit of wires, the electricians told me to put mud ring on and that keeps the wire coiled in them until I am ready to install the switches and outlets. Seems to make sense to me at the time, I thought about sheet rockers using rotozip to route out the box, but subconsciously I ruled that out because I thought with the wires in them the rotozip would end up piercing the wirings at best, and since I used all double gang boxes even though many of them will actually be single gang outlets or switches, there is no way they would be able to cut them correctly without the mud ring on. I used double gang boxes because I ran into problem using the single box before when I need to put in those big thick GFCI boxes it does not leave a lot of room for wires especially if the box also serve as a junction box so I prefer to do that to have some extra room if needed.

I didn't really think through this whole process. I am still a bit confused about using a rotozip to cut around the inside of a box wouldn't that have a pretty high likelihood of tearing into the wires in the box and what about where I would have a single gang switch/ outlet but I used a double gang box.

Thanks,

You are talking about two different types of boxes. Some boxes, single, double, triple gang are bang on flush mount and don't use mud rings. That type of box is mounted to the stud with the front sticking out beyond the stud, for the thickness of the finished wall. Other types of boxes, such as

There may be a bit of confusion here. There are two types of box add- ons.

1. Mud ring - meant to be used for plaster work. Been a long time since I looked at one of those so I don't recall how much they 'stick out'. It isn't much, just the thickness of the plaster coats.
2. Box extenders - used to increase the amount of room in the box.

They are quite different animals.

Harry K

What you really want to do is to buy a metal cutting blade for your chop saw. If you don't have a chop saw rent one. Cut the ends off of enough handy box blank covers to cover the openings in all of the mud rings. you cut them off just beyond the screw holes. If you have room to tip the entire device into the box then do so. If you do not have enough room to fit the entire device in the box then remove the devices. Install the handy box covers. Tell the dry wall foreman that he will be back charged for every cover that is removed whether damage occurs or not. Be clear with her/him that the boards must be applied with the covers in place. If they know their business they will position the board, stab the Rotozip bit onto the cover, fall off the edge of the cover, and cut out around the cover for a perfect fitting hole every time. With mud rings there is no reason to cut around the inside of the ring. The only way the ring will fit in the opening is to cut around the outside of the ring's raised opening. A few local jurisdictions in states that still allow local option require that tile/panel rings be used in drywall on the grounds that mud rings are only suitable for a real plaster wall.

I personally use mud rings that have an actual raise that matches the thickness of the sheet rock being used. To obtain that I use rings with a nominal thickness one eighth inch thicker then the nominal thickness of the drywall. What I get for my trouble is a ring that actually comes all the way out to the surface of the drywall. As a result the device ears do not depend on the drywall for support. I get no floating devices that way. I have been praised by several owners for the fit and finish of my work.

-- Tom Horne

One more question. How do they cut out for the ceiling hi hat lights and exhaust fans that are there already? They can't use a router to route around the can or do they?

Please disregard any of my previous posts on this subject. I was confusing the mud ring with something else.

I apologize.

Hank

Tom:

In my house I have about 70% of the sheet rock down. Most of those would be replaced by 1/2" standard sheet rock, but the existing sheet rock remains in some areas. It may be difficult to match the thickness since the existing wall is a layer of cement material with a layer of gypsum board backing, and top coated with plasters. It is very difficult to demo this material, as around all the wall or ceiling corners is embedded wire mesh that makes it very difficult to not get a lot of tear outs.

My boxes are all flushed with the studs, and there are 3/8" or

I think I follow your suggestion is to basically create a template to mount on top of the mud ring, such template is created by shaving off say 3/8" on all sides of a blank cover plate, so the sheet rockers will route around the outside of the plate instead of the inside of the box. This is certainly a solution. It also serves as a neat way to protect the device or the wires from being exposed to the dust and mud during the process.

I guess one question I have is since the mud ring is raised, why can't the sheet rockers route around the outside of the raised portion? Is it because the raised portion is not a square edge and hence the cut will not be clean and neat? Just seem like chopping up a lot of metal cover plates would be quite a bit of work as well.

Commercial sheet rockers are all well prepared to rout around plaster rings. There are even some who are quite willing to measure and cut, though the 1/2" residential boys have gone to hanging first and cutting after. The plaster rings will need to be the proper depth before the rock is hung, so your old plaster areas may need much deeper plaster rings. You don't get to change your mind after the rock is on. It sounds to me that your best approach would be to talk to the sheetrocker. The receps need to be out of the hole for ease of cutting and good smooth tape and bed. The boxes will get lots of mud in them, or you can buy or make little sponge or plastic hole fillers. Here is one version from Crouse Hinds:

You should remove all the outlets except for a couple for the sheetrockers and other subs to use..Usually the one behind the fridg and one in a bedroom or laundry room on the other side of the house that isn't conspicuos is the norm..A PITA for you to remove them but you'll be glad you did..They shouldn't have been installed in the first place...Believe me....Saves a ton of time for the rocker , mudders and painters which will save you money cuz time IS money and they WILL charge extra...We do as most are paid by the sheet...Plus the safety factor for the workers...You will have a much better job as well...As for sheetrockers being the biggest slobs..You try to mud ceilings without getting mud on the floor or mud in the boxes and get it done in a timely manner...That said , most all around here scrape and sweep the floor and clean out the boxes after sanding is done...We have a guy who drives the one ton rack truck around that picks up the scrap sheetrock and hauls it to the dump for the rockers and scrapes and sweeps the floor behind us tapers as well as delivering supplies..The tapers clean out the boxes....I'm sure there are hacks that don't but you get what you pay for as in all things....

DanG this is very helpful thanks.