How to complain to the FTC and/or FCC about deceptive advertising

[trader_4]

I agree they should change it to say that the card can be used to expand data, pic, memory storage, but not to store apps. If you tried to win a case in court that they lied however, I think you'd have a tough time, because the memory is expandable, just not for apps.

Good grief. I have a ZTE AWE, an entry level Android. It has 4GB of Flash. I'll say it again. It has the typical Android load, including Chrome, Maps, Search, etc. I put maybe a dozen more apps on it, they were typically 5MB - 20MB. It now has ~650MB *total* in apps and still shows 1.3GB free.

Assuming that what you say is true, that the Tmobile only has 600MB free out of the box, then it's not the phone's fault. It's that Tmobile screwed the pooch. The reviewers didn't review Tmobile's load, they reviewed the phone in general.

Note the 1.69GB free. That is very consistent with my experience. The similar Android sitting on my desk has the dozen or so apps that I've added and it still shows 1.3GB free. That's consistent with the above review. So, if Tmobile is filling it with some crapware, that reduces theirs to only 600MB, then it appears to be a Tmobile specific issue, not an issue with the LG phone itself.

Who says that half the 1.69GB is already used up? The similar Android here on my desk says it has 1.3GB free.

What exactly they mean by 1.8GB available to the user isn't clear. I sure sounds like they mean it's really available on the phones they are reviewing. To figure out what is available on each companies phone someone would have to buy each phone from each carrier, etc. And then change it once a week when apps get updated and the sizes change. Or, if it really is of critical importance to you, you could turn on the phone and check before you buy it.

The problem

Are you sure that's an LG issue? I thought it was an Android OS issue. In fact, wasn't it possible in the past and then they changed it? You may have a more legitimate FTC issue with Google, if you can show they did that for some nefarious restraint of trade issue, as opposed to for legitimate technical reasons.

Again, they were reviewing the entry level LG phone, not Tmobile's screwed implementation, assuming that what you say about Tmobile here is true. The phone is likely fine. I have an almost identical ZTE Awe, identical memory specs, the reviews of it were similar to what you see there and I'm very happy with it.

[trader_4]

He's not talking about RAM. He's talking about what they call ROM. And actually calling it ROM is wrong. It's not ROM, it's Flash memory. That Flash is used to store the OS, whatever apps are included with the Android OS and whatever apps the particular carrier chooses to put on their phone. The problem is, most, maybe all of those, you can't delete. So, if they fill the 4GB up with crapware, you could wind up with only 600MB left, which is what he's claiming Tmobile did. As I've reported, I have a similar ZTE Awe entry level Android and it shows 1.3GB free and that's after I installed about a dozen apps of my own. Those apps were about 5 -20MB. So, even assuming what he says is correct, that you only have 600MB left on the Tmobile phone for apps, I don't see where that makes an entry level Android phone "unusable" for most customers.

I agree with him that Tmobile should add something that says that

4GB includes the OS, pre-loaded apps, etc and that expansion memory card can't be used for app storage.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 05:25:36 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

That's a very good question/suggestion!

I would "guess" (FWIW) that *some* of the apps a "typical" user /might/ want, might be (in no particular order) one or more of these freeware apps that I have on my personal Android phone:

An anonymity browser (e.g., Orbot) An anonymity search engine (e.g., DuckDuckGo) A task manager app (e.g., "Tasks") A memo program (e.g., Inkpad) A grocery list app (e.g., Out of Milk) A car finder (e.g., Find My Car) A gas station price finder app (e.g., GasBuddy) A barcode scanner (e.g., Barcode Scanner) A dashcam recorder (e.g., DashCam) A better hands-free voice-control app (e.g., Dragon Mobile Assistant) Offline map when cell signal is dodgy (e.g., Navigator) Offline backcountry mapping/tracking (e.g., My Tracks) A power minder (e.g., Battery Doctor) A flashlight app (e.g., TeslaLED) A VOIP app (e.g., Viber) An offline language translator (e.g., Google Translate) An automatic call recorder (e.g., Automatic Call Recorder) A backup app (e.g., Helium) An app killer/task manager (e.g., TasKiller Free) An history eraser (e.g., History Eraser) An Internet app to remotely control your PC (e.g., TeamViewer) A drawing app (e.g., Paper Artist) A photo editor (e.g., Pixir Express) An alternative keyboard (e.g., Swype) An anti-virus scanner (e.g., Avast!) A streaming music app (e.g., Songza) A fitness calorie counter (e.g., MyFitnessPal) A file navigator (e.g., ES File Explorer) A checking-account manager (e.g., Mint) A terminal emulator (e.g., Terminal Emulator) A PDF reader (e.g., Adobe Reader) An app manager (e.g., Clean Master) A memory manager (e.g., 1TapBoost) A level app (e.g., Power Bubble Spirit Level) A WiFi discovery app (e.g., InSSIDer) An installer hierarchy (e.g., FDroid) A speech-to text stenographer (e.g., Speech To Text) An FM radio app (e.g., TuneIn Radio) A screen recorder (e.g., ScreeenREC) An offline document browser (e.g., Pocket) A PowerPoint viewer (e.g., PowerPoint) An Excel viewer (e.g., Excel) A Word viewer (e.g., Word) A social-networking app (e.g., LinkedIn) A weather app (e.g., The Weather Channel) A document markup app (e.g., Skitch) A document scanner/pdf/ocr app (e.g., CamScanner) A caller-id white-pages lookup app (e.g., Current Caller ID) etc.

[TJ]

Sigh. The 4GB you are complaining incessantly about is NOT ROM. It is a flash storage card that is permanently installed inside your device. It CAN be changed. The contents of the space available to the user, whatever it may be, can be written to, erased, or altered. Even the contents NOT available to the user may be altered by anybody with administrative (root) privileges.

It would be much more accurate if you were to use the term "internal storage," rather than "memory" or "ROM."

The term my tablet uses, "internal SD card," would also be acceptable, but more confusing.

Under "Storage" in "Settings," my tablet lists "RAM," "Internal SD card," "External SD Card," and "USB disk." I'm allowed to move most apps "to SD card" to free up RAM, but only to the internal card.

I'd speculate that there're very good reasons not to allow moving apps or their essential data to an external card. The external card is easily removed. If you attempt to use an app from a card that isn't there, it could crash the system. Also, for security reasons. If the card is easily removed, it's easily read by malefactors, or replaced with one that has had malware implanted on it.

TJ

[trader_4]

Last time I checked, permanent and "can be changed" were mutually exclusive. And the flash inside the phone is not a card, it's a chip soldered to the PC board. You can't change it. You can add a flash card, but that can't be used for apps, only data.

The contents of the space available to the user,

I agree. Flash memory would be an even better and correct term. But you can blame confusion there on Tmobile and LG. They both call it ROM. It's not ROM, it's Flash memory, but apparently they are not the only companies who have incorrectly used the terms.

That's a lame excuse. If an app isn't there and you attempt to run it, it's going to crash the OS? Good grief. What kind of primitive half-assed OS would that be?

Also, for security reasons. If the card is

Irrelevant because you can similarly compromise any removable storage media. And I haven't seen any instance of the alleged problem even reported. But there do seem to be some folks pissed because Google took out the ability to store apps on expansion memory. The real reason remains unknown.

[trader_4]

Houston, we've found the problem.....

[The Other Guy]

From PC Mag..

Bottom Line

The LG Optimus L9 is scarcely available, but if you can get it, it's the best MetroPCS smartphone that runs on T-Mobile's network right now.

Apparently, OTHER PEOPLE don't agree with you.

To reply by email, lose the Ks...

[Whiskers]

Not exactly:

,---- [ ] | Memory | 1 GB RAM, 4 GB ROM | Supports up to 32 GB MicroSD card `----

Which isn't what the downloadable specificati ,---- [ ] | Memory: up to 4 GB Internal (external microSD slot is | expandable up to 32 GB) `----

4GB internal memory isn't much for a device running Android 4; Google's 'Nexus 5' (which is made by LG) comes with either 16GB or 32GB, for example.

[tlvp]

You expected to load apps into *ROM*? (LOL) You didn't realize that ROM is ReadOnlyMemory, and you can't write to ROM?

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp

[tlvp]

Indeed they do:

: Memory : 1 GB RAM, 4 GB ROM : Supports up to 32 GB MicroSD card

That shows you have only the 1 GB RAM available for writing to or erasing; and of that apparently only 600 MB remains for *you* to use. As for what the 4 GB worth of ROM space is good for, there's no way you'll ever be able to write to or erase any of it because it's *ROM*, not *RAM* :-) .

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp

[trader_4]

They are incorrectly calling it ROM, but clearly it's Flash memory. It's the internal Flash memory that every Smartphone has. A cell phone would be useless without Flash to store apps, photos, etc. Plus they say it has 4GB of ROM, expandable to 32GB with an external card. Again, that's a Flash card, not ROM.

And if you want to claim that there is just 4 GB ROM and 1 GB, RAM, then where are all the apps, photos, music etc stored so that they don't disappear when the battery goes dead, you take the battery out, reboot, etc?

[trader_4]

It really isn't ROM and then should not be calling it that. It's actually pretty bad, it seems they aren't the only company that's gone wrong here. ROM is Read Only Memory. It's either programmed by mask at the factory or field programmed one time. The latter isn't used anymore, it's been replaced long ago by Flash. ROM can't be changed. What these phones use are Flash and I believe like you do that what they are calling ROM is really Flash Memory. It holds the OS, apps, data, pics, etc. But they should either call it Flash or else refer to it as internal storage.

[The Real Bev]

Every single one of these says "requires root" somewhere in the small print. Even if it doesn't say so, it does. I know. I looked.

Requires root :-(

[The Real Bev]

You're not. I feel cheated about the external sdcard thing too.

The manufacturers are complicit too.

Perhaps we SHOULD have been able to intuit that we couldn't put apps on the external sdcard, but I really don't see where that information is readily available to the ordinary non-technical user.

[The Real Bev]

This is going into misc.legal too. Any hungry lawyers there who want to start a class action suit? Each member sues for the cost of the phone he was duped into buying plus the cost of apps he downloaded plus some amount of pain and suffering. Come on, shysters, earn your keep!

[The Real Bev]

They sell only a few "pre-paid" phones. Low end. I put the pre-paid T-Mobile SIM from my previous Nokia flipphone into the unlocked BLU Dash 4.5 smartphone and it worked right off the bat. I'm willing to buy T-Mobile $10/year prepaid service, but not a locked-in T-Mobile branded phone.

It takes one tech (or maybe his 8-year-old kid) to read off the storage numbers for all the phones they sell. We have this nifty thing called 'communication' now. Sometimes paper, sometimes bits, but it really works. They really have no excuse for not having that information instantly available.

[K Wills]

I thought it might be a typo, but I don't really pay enough attention to which manufacturer makes what.

[K Wills]

You need to be more careful with your wording. It's still a 4GB phone. It just has 600MB available for your use.

[K Wills]

In Danny's defense, the PTB list it as ROM on the spec sheet.

[trader_4]

It's not just reading off numbers. It's that you have to then maintain a current up to date list that has the actual memory available and keep it updated each and every time the software gets changed. And part of that change, they likely have no control over. For example, they have a current load that includes many apps. That load probably stays fixed for some number of months. But as soon as you buy the phone and turn it on, any day there is a change to any of those apps, it could and likely would change the amount of storage space the apps take. It could go from the phone having the claimed 600MB of free space to having 500MB of free space and then you'd have someone accusing them of lying. It looks to me like they'd have to update that list of free space for each phone every day to keep it accurate.

We have this nifty thing called

Try calling up Dell or HP and asking how much space is avaiable on their Model XPG-S hard drive after all the software is loaded. I'll bet they don't have the number either.

I agree they should at least put a note on the literature, something like:

"The 4GB of internal storage is also used for the OS and all pre-installed apps. This reduces the amount of memory available to the user."

They should also put in a disclaimer that says that additional memory that is added cannot be used to store apps.

I think if they did that, it's enough to put people fairly on notice.

But I don't agree that it makes the phone "unuseable" as Danny claims. Did you see that list of apps he expects an entry level, $150 Android phone to support? He bought an entry level phone and expects it to have the features of a $600 phone. This memory issue hits those entry level phones the hardest. If you move up from say 4GB of memory to 8GB, the phone would go from having 600MB free to having 4.6GB free.

Part of the problem here is also that apparently Tmobile has some software load on there that takes up a lot more space than is necessary. I have a similar 4GB Android. IDK how much free memory it originally had, but I haven't taken any apps off, have added apps that total maybe 100 - 200MB, and it still reports 1.3GB free.