I do believe that none of the neutral current is carried back to the
power plant. As you might describe it, with your scope, the neutral
is pulling from another phase to make up the imbalance. So, pulling
from the power plant via a different leg.
Wrong again. Triplex cable (see link above) isn't used for distribution anywhere in the U.S.
that I'm aware of -- it is, however, very commonly used for service drops (from the
transformer to the customer's service mast).
Like I said... don't you think it's time you stopped assuming that what is true in your
obviously limited experience is true everywhere?
Maybe you need to look again at the title of the thread -- which has been *entirely* about
how service entrances are wired.
Bare neutrals on service entrances are very common, your delusions to the contrary
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:32:13 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
To be totally fair, this turkey has been all over the map.
As for LIMITED experience, I've worked on electrical systems in 3 very
widely differing areas of the world - east/central Africa, West
Africa, and Canada - both rural and urban.
Which obviously qualifies you to make sweeping generalities about the entire North American
continent -- NOT.
And yes, I'd say that working on rural African systems *does* qualify as "limited experience".
You clearly don't understand much beyond Canadian codes and practices.
Yep. That's why you see the wire with the fancy stripe. :-) Generally you will
only see the messenger cable used as a neutral for residential services. Poly-
phase drops use four insulated conductors.
(Of course, the exception is the rule types will chime in.)
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:26:14 -0500, Ralph Mowery wrote:
If the statement is true, then you should be able to find at least
one reliable reference that supports your supposition. Right?
It's not like the question has never been asked before.
I provided more than a half dozen references which supported the
statement that the ground, in the typical USA AC transmission system,
is the return path to the electric company.
I admit, those references seemed to be from howto, school, and
physics web sites - but it was all that I could find.
However, I could not find a single reference that stated that the
ground is *not* the return path to the power company.
If it's true that the ground is not the return path, given that
clearly a LOT of sites say that it is, then why can't we find a
single reliable reference that explicitly refutes that assumption?
Again, I'm perfectly happy to be wrong if someone can prove they
are right. Merely stating that I'm wrong and that you are right
does nobody any good.
Let's see a single reliable reference that explicitly answers
the question by flatly refuting the (clearly common) assumption
that the ground *is* the return path back to the power company.
On Monday, November 25, 2013 6:45:59 PM UTC-5, Danny D'Amico wrote:
Now it's a clearly common assumption? Prior to you bringing
it up, I never heard it before.
Here's a diagram for you:
Go part way down to the animated drawing that shows a 3 phase
power plant connected to it's 3 phase load. Note the 3 wires
and that planet earth is *not* part of the circuit.
That is how power is generated and delivered. They may use the
earth somewhere in the world as part of some power delivery
circuit for something, but if they do, it's the exception, not
the typical 99% part of how power is delivered.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 23:45:59 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
I have given you a couple references that "prove" the ground is not
GENERALLY used as the return, because they specifically mention the
odd case where it DOES get used , SWERT, as an anomoly (being out of
Just admit it. You don't like to be "wrong" - but in this case, you
and the sources you reference ARE.
You're getting too personal. This is not a personal issue.
We are all among friends here.
This is merely a discussion about what the TRUTH is.
I don't see a single reference in all your posts which state that
the earth is not used as the return path for electrons in typical
American power distribution.
In contrast, I have provided a half-dozen references which directly
state that the earth is used as the return path for electrons in
power distribution in the United States.
For example, read this reference:
Which states, clearly as the sun shines on the truth:
"The power company essentially uses the earth as one of
the wires in the power system. The earth is a pretty good
conductor and it is huge, so it makes a good return path
This is from this electrical engineering class:
EGR 220, Spring 2013, Engineering Circuit Theory
Taught by this associate professor:
Again, this is not a personal issue. I don't care if I'm right or
wrong. I don't care if you are right or wrong.
I just want to know what the truth is.
And, if this EE class is wrong, then I would think we can find a single
reference that refutes the statement I quoted.
I can't find any. No matter how hard I look.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:27:35 AM UTC-5, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Uh, no, it's worse than that. His one reference is the creator
of "How stuff works". He justs keeps googling and finding the
exact same verbage or a direct link back to that, and then he
counts it as a new, independent "reference". Unless I missed
something, I think he's showing tht ap Cardell referenced the
"how stuff works" description in her course.
He refuses to even acknowledge the links that you provided that
talk about how systems are grounded, what the earth is used for, etc.
And he's too lazy to spend an hour learning how 3 phase works
and why you only need those 3 wires to transmit power.
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