High Efficiency Furnace intake pipe does not go outside. Is that OK?

On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:13:54 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (m Ransley) wrote:

You dont know the actual circumstances and neither do I. Problem is, if you go with the cheapest guy you get a "cheapest" job. He has a furnace an it works. Thats all the cheap installer cares about. Quick in, Quick out and get your money. Thats what you get when you hire the hack. A proper installation and installer would charge a proper fee...............Not a HACK fee. Bubba
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On 3 Mar 2006 14:46:29 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Really. You're saying it's not safe to burn a gas oven to heat a house poorly (less than fully), but it's ok to vent an entire furnace to the inside of the house?
Oh, the new gas furnaces don't make CO, because they are so well made? Can you guarantee that one will always work so well?
btw. what do the installation instructions for the OP's furnace say?

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If you are going to comment on my reply, you should at least read it. You should also read Viktor's original question.
No one is talking about venting an entire furnace inside the house. We are talking about the intake pipe that Viktor's installer chose to leave taking air from the inside. The exhaust pipe was installed to the outside, as it would have to be.
My point was that, though is is more efficient in most situations, installing the intake pipe to the outside of the house is often stated as optional in the installation instructions. There may be code violations, however, in some areas.
(Bubba is right to point out that I was wrong about the furnace's being installed in an unheated area, btw)
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On 5 Mar 2006 06:15:18 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

If you are going to suggest I didn't read your post, you should at least quote what I said about it and quote what you had said that you think I didn't read.

Viktor's question had nothing to do with it. I was replying to you. Viktor's question had been more than 2 days earlier, and that's when I read it, but I just saw your reply. I don't know that it limited itself to the contents of Viktor's post.

Previous text restored:On 3 Mar 2006 14:46:29 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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Apparently you meant "venting" to refer to intake. Every meaning but one in the dictionary associates venting with output. Maybe input is an accepted definition in the trade, but if you knew non-trade uses of the word, you wouldn't assume I didn't read your post.
vent n. 1. A means of escape or release from confinement; an outlet: give vent to one's anger. 2. An opening permitting the escape of fumes, a liquid, a gas, or steam. 3. The small hole at the breech of a gun through which the charge is ignited. 4. Zoology. The excretory opening of the digestive tract in animals such as birds, reptiles, amphibians, and fish. 5. Geology. 1. The opening of a volcano in the earth's crust. 2. An opening on the ocean floor that emits hot water and dissolved minerals.
v. tr. 1. To express (one's thoughts or feelings, for example), especially forcefully. 2. To release or discharge (steam, for example) through an opening. 3. To provide with a vent. v. intr. 1. To vent one's feelings or opinions. 2. To be released or discharged through an opening. 3. To rise to the surface of water to breathe. Used of a marine mammal. [This one is neutral, but derives not from verb but from the the vent, the hole on top of whales etc.] vent n. An opening into a cavity or canal, especially one through which contents are discharged.

OK. So you're talking about the intake. No argument with that.
Cheers

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If you are going to comment on my reply, you should at least read it. You should also read the original question from Viktor.
No one is talking about venting the entire furnace inside the house. We are referring to the intake pipe that Viktor's installer chose to leave taking air from the inside. The exhaust pipe was installed to the outside, as it would have to be.
My point was that taking air from the outside, thought more efficient in most situations, is often stated as optional in the installation instructions. There may be code violations, however, in some areas for this.
(Bubba is right to point out that I was wrong about the furnace's being installed in an unheated place, byw)
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Hi, Could be code violation. New furnace needs fresh air from outside just for it's own combustion. This is only logical.
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replying to intersoft4you, HVAC Man wrote:

A high efficiency furnace should draw air from the same pressure zone ! Meaning the inlet air pipe and the exhaust air pipe should be in close proximity to one another allowing equal pressure changes. Both pipes should always be installed on the same side of the house as well. Whomever said you are allowed to to draw intake air from the basement is just looking to make some easy money on nuisance pressure sensor trips....
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HVAC Man wrote:

Hi, Mod mid-efficiency furnace haad fresh air insulated dampered intake duct for combustion. In this case intake can be inside the basement. Our local code allows this.
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On 2/17/2015 1:13 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:

CAN BE does not mean SHOULD BE.
Using outside air for combustion is more efficient. You are using air that you paid to heat and sending it up the flue. Sounds to me the contractor for the OP is just lazy.
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On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 10:29:50 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The difference in heat may not be that great. One factor is where the furnace is located, ie is it in the heated space, an unheated basement, garage, attic, etc. Even assuming worse case, it's not clear to me how much difference it makes. Yes heated air is used for combustion. But the alternative, bringing in cold outside air, just means less heat is generated in the furnace. You're getting more heat of a furnace with 60F air going into it than with 20F air.
I know relatively new, circa 2007, expensive houses built here that have furnaces in unfinished basements that use the basement air.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Hi, Any how, today's new houses are so air tight we have to bring in controlled outside fresh air into the house.
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On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 11:05:14 AM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:

Maybe so, somewhere. But I've yet to see a new house that was so airtight that it needed it around here, NJ.
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trader_4 wrote:

Hi, In cold climate up here every new house going up has provision for fresh air intake. My house was built in 1994 per R2000 specs. If it doesn't bring in fresh air, it may cause indoor CO problem. Summer or winter, we seldom open windows.
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On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 12:53:12 PM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:

Where is this CO problem supposed to come from?
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On 2/17/2015 11:57 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Backdrafting.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8806218
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On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 11:59:02 AM UTC-5, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

I guess it's possible. Can't see what the study actually consisted of without having paid access. The question would be what kind of appliances did these highly sealed houses have? You would think it would have a high efficiency direct vent furnace for example. That would eliminate the furnace as a possible force. What's left? WH? Again typical energy efficient new house likely has a power vent WH. It would be interesting to see the study to find out how the CO they measured originated if they are using modern appliances. With an old furnace using a traditional chimney, old non-power vent water heater, etc then I can see it being a problem, but those appliances in a new house seem unlikely.
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On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 11:44:06 PM UTC-5, HVAC Man wrote:

Nonsense. Many furnaces can be installed using either outside combustion air or inside. It's permitted per the manufacturer's installation instructions. In most cases it makes more sense to use outside air, especially if the furnace is located in a heated space, because if inside air is used, the makeup cold air will be drawn in to the structure from outside through leakage.
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On 2/17/2015 7:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Yep. Not only that, but some of the earlier high efficiency furnaces didn't even have an air intake pipe. I had an Amana, probably from the 90s, that had a standard open burner arrangement just like the furnaces from the 70s. I just drew air from the room where it was installed. The exhaust on the Amana, was the standard PVC out the side wall of the house.
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On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, Art Todesco wrote:

Not that it matters at this point, as this is a revival of an old post, but the install manual for the furnace would have the answer as to how it can be installed. My Rheem, it could installed either with outside air or using air from within.
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Same thing here. My two Heil furnaces never required outside air, the first running for 22 years, The current one running for 10 years. No nuisance trips or other issues.
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