Help finding underground wire/box

[Todesco]

10 years ago I installed a post lamp in the front of my property. The house builder left a 2" plastic conduit (maybe 100 feet) from the house to the area where the post light was to be installed. I put a 4" square plastic box at each end of the conduit as ground level. The house end is no problem as it is in the asphalt driveway. At the house end, I connected an underground "romex" to a breaker on the panel. At the other end, I connected 2 underground "romex", one to the post light and one to an outlet, some 25' away. Through the years, the outside box has disappeared and I can't find it. I've tried raking up the leaf mulch. Nope. I've also tried one of the non touch voltage testers. Nope. I've tried a tracing unit connecting a signal to the power line and snooping with the other end. Nope! I don't have a metal detector. Not sure where to go from here. Any great ideas out there?

[hubops]

I've seen the 2 L-shaped metal rods used to locate underground electrical cable .. to my astonishment. John T.

[gfretwell]

How far do you remember it being from the lamp post?. It might be easiest to dig up the wire and follow it to the box if you think it is pretty close. The downside is you might damage the wire but if you have it dug up anyway, it is just a piece of UF you have to replace along with whatever you are planning to do. I doubt a metal detector would help much if this is a plastic box. It might see the copper wire but maybe not. This is supposed to be 24" down if it is not on a GFCI.

[Phil Kangas]

That works! I've done it.... phil

[albosch]

I've done it also with welding rods. Go at it from several directions. It works....

[trader_4]

Seems logical. Track it back from the lamp post to box. Or if that's gone, dig down before the lamp post about where you'd think the conduit runs. If it;s not there, dig a foot to the left, then a foot to the right. Has to be there somewhere.

[micky]

Well I checked Amazon for ground penetrating radar and they actually have something but it's $1350.

up to 33 feet deep.

Check to see if there is a tool library in your town.

There are two in Baltimore, and they have a lot of great hand and power tools though they didn't have this one. Still, yours might.

The rental for a power hammer that Home Depot wanted iir $40 for 4 hours was $20 for a week, but at this one it's supposed to be only for community projects, not home. Still, they don't send a warden with the tool. (And right now they're only doing covid projects, whatever those might be.)

Or maybe some electrician with the right too. will do this for ??? Should only take 10 minute of his time but I know there's a minimum, especially when a special tool is involved.

In indianapolis we had a wall switch for a light post near the street, but no post. I don't know how we were supposed to find it in 1960. I don't even know if the conduit was in place, maybe just the switch.

[micky]

I think you should put the current through a load first. A 150 watt lightbulb or a 1100 watt heater.

[gfretwell]

Those issues will all be gone with the 2020 code. That wire will be on a GFCI and it will trip with the slightest ground contact. You will just be digging the whole thing up and replacing it. They removed the "120v 15&20 amp" language and apply 210.8 GFCI requirements to all outlets (receptacle, lighting or otherwise) for 120 and 240v circuits, at any amperage. Yes that means the dryer will be on a GFCI along with any 240v equipment in the garage or outside (or any other place that calls for GFCI) along with the 120v stuff that already should be. When you add that to the AFCI requirements, there will not be many standard breakers left in a residential panel.

[bruce2bowser]

Call miss utility, OK?

[bruce2bowser]

Call 811.

[Ralph Mowery]

The 811 people only go from the power pole to your power meter. Once the wiring is owned by the homeowner or business, the 811 service stops.

I just had them to come out and locate some wiring for me. They went from the power pole to the meter about 200 feet away. Located the power and cable. There was no gas lines or telephone lines in the general area.

I tried using a very good metal detector for this wiring before and after I knew where the wires were. I could trace an old underground telephone easy. For some reason the power and cable lines were more difficult for me to detect even when I knew where the company marked them.

[dpb]

+1

I called local company to locate exactly how Dad routed power from pole to the house before we began the renovation...wasn't that expensive and they had the good-enough gear to trace it. Friend with less expensive unit and I tried for some time but it was too deep for its range.

I knew the general route but not precisely enough to be comfortable telling the guys with the backhoe when it was time to go.

I did know the gas line is outside the are we were digging in so it was safe.

We still found two (abandoned) water lines I didn't know were there--one an old line to service north of the barn that had been disconnected 40+ year ago -- I remember when the tank was there but I had always thought the line went from the other direction over there. The other was the original service line to the house from the old original windmill....that predated me too much to have a clue over. Fortunately, both were abandoned so no harm done...

Probably just buried deeper -- typically the phone company barely covers it over around here...if our service line is 12" it would be real close. Dunno is there's any Code for that or not; it's been there "since forever" and we're outside city jurisdiction and county had no zoning/code at all until quite recent.

[Frank]

I am not certain but believe last year when I had a new well dug, Miss Utility was called and did delineate the wire to the old well. The new one was dug about40 feet from the old one.

[gfretwell]

Generally speaking Article 725 (low voltage) and 800 (communications) wire is 6" or more. Chapter 3 (line voltage) is 18" for branch circuit and feeder wire in conduit, 24" for service laterals, conduit or not and direct burial cable. There is a catch all residential exception for 120v 15&20a circuits, GFI protected, that allows 12" depth.

This gets more complicated around pools and spas, under roads and some other special locations

[micky]

I generally disapprove of bribery but I called Miss Utility when I wasn't ready to dig on the theory that they roam around the area and they can stop buy and it will take one guy what, 10 minutes to do it.

So in this case, if you're already entitled to call 811 to plan for future digging and if there's a good chance 811 will find it if he looks, you could make sure you're there and pay him extra to look for you. After you're desperate.

When they repaved the road outside our house, my mother was home and saw them out there and got them to pave the mudhole that was in front of our rural mailbox. She tipped them, but I wss never sure if it was a tip or a bribe. It might have been part of their job to do this sort of thing. She wasn't sure either. An area about 18" x 3 feet. They filled it too.

Like I say I don't approve of that, but to get a paver to come out and do 4.5 sq. feet would have cost $300? She was a widow and woudln't have done it. But for the county to do it, it took 5 minutes to fill, 5 or

10 minutes for 2 guys to pave, and 5 minutes to roll.

[Todesco]

Here's an update. When I built the house I took tons of pics. I didn't remember taking pics of the orange plastic conduit, but actually, I did. The pictures helped a bit. Haven't found it yet, but I feel I'm closer. Originally, I was looking in a different spot. It's amazing how much growth occurred in 10 years. Yesterday I put my signal unit on the turned off lamp post outlet. I can trace it even to the 2nd outlet some 25' away without even getting right on that outlet. But in the ground there seems to be lots of attenuation (ground). I was getting close in a big patch of some "weedy flowers" but had to give up as my back couldn't take any more (recent back surgery). Today it's supposed to rain all day, so it will have to wait.

[Todesco]

BTW, this all started out when the GCFI on this circuit started tripping randomly. It's a new GCFI in the panel. The power comes from the panel and goes to a J-box next to the panel, where there is an X10 module to power up the run going to the post light and 2 duplex outlets. The run from the house to the area where the light and outlets are located, is about 150'. So, when the post light is off, the neutral is still connected to the 150' run, but, of course, not the hot lead. I am wondering if this unbalance might be causing the GCFI tripage? I'm guessing here, but it seems the GCFI trips at about the same time as the X10 switch turns on.

[micky]

Maybe these units work better when the ground is wet. Or worse. What am I, a scientist?

[Clare Snyder]

Using trump's favorite line now, are you??? <BG>