help!!! Advice needed ASAP Gambrel Roof Trusses

[Danimal]

Hi all, I have a major problem, first the concrete slab that was poured for my new garage has gone to shit because of a bad batch of concrete. This is an argument and moan for another day. Here's my main beef that I need expert advice only, please I do not want opinions . I need solid proof, so if you can send me to a site or show me an engineered diagram it would be greatly, greatly appreciated. I took a contractor to a friends garage that measures 24'across x 26 long, the garage has a Gambrel Roof Truss which allows a 15' wide x 26 long room upstairs with an 8ft ceiling. I told the contractor that this is exactly what I want, the only difference was I wanted my garage to be 26' x 26' He viewed the garage and said that he seen enough and knew exactly what I wanted. Since then, the roof trusses are now out in my yard and the space allowed for a upstairs room is only 12' x 26', The contractor told me the bigger you go with the garage, the room upstairs has to be smaller. I could almost believe this but the gambrel truss is not even the same design even though it has 2x 6 material where as my friends had only 2x 4's . Here's the question > Can it be possibel to have a 15' room upstairs, 8' ft ceilings top and bottom floors using a Gambrel (barn style) truss on a 26' wide garge. I know this contractor is waltzing me around and I need proof that he is lying. Thanks in advance for all help Danimal

[EXT]

Mistake number one, you did not review the plans.

Mistake number two, relying on someone else's project to base your decisions on.

Mistake number three, not providing written specifications on what you want and having the contractor committ to them.

Cure number one: Contact the truss maker (if the manufacturer is not marked on the trusses, get the name from your contractor) to see what their engineers can make according to their designs.

Cure number two: Stop all work and correct the above mistakes before proceeding any further.

[Red Green]

"Danimal" wrote in news:4b2ff756$0$5325$ [e-mail]:

Only opinions and experiences here. Even a bonified expert is not proof if it comes from the Internet.

Every job is different and that's why plans must be approved by a PE before you can get a permit.

You need to go to a PE for "proof". You should already have that because your plan has the stamp of a Professional Engineer. That's how you got the building permit.

[jamesgangnc]

You "can" do anything. As long as it's engineered correctly. I'd guess the guy spec'd the roof trusses wrong. Did you have any sort of spec sheet as part of your "contract" with him? Doesn't have to be a big production, just a page or two with the highlights like dimensions in it. If not then you might be in a tight spot. Even with it's going to be hard to get him to abandon that much money in the trusses. He might decide it's better to just walk away from the whole job. So you'll have to decide where you want to go with it from here. Another option might be to find someone to buy those trusses on craig's list. You'll take a loss though.

I'm not a huge fan of the manufactured roof trusses for 2nd story space so I went with manufactured floor joists and stick built roof in my garage project. The downside is that they are 22" tall and with a

10' garage ceiling that makes my 2nd story floor pretty far above grade. The plus side is that my 2nd story is floored all the way to the outside dimensions and I can do anything I want with the space cause there is nothing load bearing in it.

I've got my own contractor dilemma though. My guy has dropped off the face of the earth for 2 months now. Fortunately I've only paid him for work done, not work "to be done". But I still need some grading finished plus a few other odds and ends and I don't have the equipment for that so I'd just as soon he show back up. Without a rollback it's expensive to rent equipment.

[jamesgangnc]

Here's what I did for specs. It covers the basics.

[Danimal]

thanks James but I'm more interested in the maximum allowable span of a gambrel roof truss and loft space.

Here's what I did for specs. It covers the basics.

[RicodJour]

Why didn't you say so? This should help clarify things for you:

R

[John Grabowski]

Why didn't you say so? This should help clarify things for you:

*Rico thanks for that link. I will probably use it myself sometime. I'm just wondering if the OP even bothered with permits and inspections and other pesky things like consulting an architect.

In this case I think the punishment may fit the crime.

[jamesgangnc]

There is not some hard rule about the span of your upper floor. It's whatever an engineer designs and certifies for the trusses. No matter what arrangement you have with the guy building it, he went to a truss manufacturer for the trusses. They're the ones on the hook for certifying that the trusses meet whatever dead and live loads are required. They probably had a number of gambrel trusses engineered up already. Can't say if they had one that had a wider upper story space or not. The company name is probably on the trusses or on some paperwork with the trusses. You could call them and ask if they have a collection of gambrel truss designs ready to go. Bottom line you could have a wider 2nd story floor. Might have been cheaper for the guy to get these with 12' space instead of an 15' space. Or maybe he just screwed up.

Doesn't change where you are. If the trusses are sitting on your lot then you have limited choices.

If you have an agreement with the builder that covers the basic specs including a 15' wide 2nd story, and you both signed it, and you have not paid him or the truss company then you could tell him to make it right or pack up and leave.

If you have already given him money that changes things a lot. While you might be in the right legally doing something about it is a whole nother kettle of fish. Getting something out of a small contractor via small claims court is a total pain in the ass. After considerable effort you may get a judgement against him. But that just means you won in court. You have to follow up with trying to collect it. Often that is just as much if not more work than getting the judgement.

Where do you stand with this guy? Got any sort of agreement in writing? Have you paid him anything yet? How much other work has he done? You mentioned the concrete problems, is that fixed? Or is this guy on the hook to jackhammer that out still? Concrete company admitting fault?

This will really get some of your naysayers riled I suspect, but if you want to go totally off the reservation you might be able to modify the trusses you have to get the extra 3'. But only if you're building without getting inspections. I built some roof trusses from scratch for an addition once. I laid them out on the driveway and used squares of osb, construction adhesive, and deck screws in place of the metal plates. They've been up 10 years now. But these were for a roof, not a floor. With a floor the loads are a whole lot bigger. That partly why I don't like engineered trusses that include a floor.

[John Grabowski]

*I think that you are right Smitty, but it would be nice to have all of the facts so that we can pass this information on to the next generation.

[Red Green]

jamesgangnc wrote in news: [e-mail]:

It's been a couple of decades but IIRC I received a truss spec with a PE's stamp when I ordered the trusses. I had to present that along with the basic plan to get the permit.

[jamesgangnc]

[e-mail]:

Hide quoted text -

That's not the case everywhere. Some places issue permits for plans that include manufactured joists or trusses without a stamp. I guess the inspector checks them on framing inspection.

[ransley]

A diagram will be 150$ in advance, your concrete needs to be removed and replaced before you screw up anything else as you watch your trusses rot in the mud this winter, Merry Christmas, come back soon.

[RicodJour]

tinyurl.com/y8g934y

Of course he didn't do his homework first - he's doing it now, after the fact. But, hell, he has a friend that is a _registered_ governement building inspector. Things are really looking rosy now!

R

[dadiOH]

Yes but you left out the apostrophe in "that's". Sould hace capatalized the "u" in "um" too.

[Danimal]

Here's some more advice to you......, remove the stucco from your nose and in the future, don't go around with it stuck up in the air. You won't have to take abuse when someone asks a specific question on this so called help/advice group, answer it or ignore it, plain and simple. Drop the bullshit about your 50 years of construction experience and what your advice is worth. Save the drama for your mama

[EXT]

So written by someone who fits his monicker perfectly.

[Danimal]

careful there now, we wouldn't want you to fall from that lofty perch.

[JIMMIE]

What you describe sounds more like Mansard than Gambrel trusses. Your contractor may be right if this is the case. Grambrel trusses may have given you nearly thefull width of the garage.

Jimmie

[Danimal]

The forwman who ordered the trusses was very inexperienced and didn't know the difference between one and the other. He knew less about proper angles and roof pitch thats how he got caught in a lie and got himself fired.

What you describe sounds more like Mansard than Gambrel trusses. Your contractor may be right if this is the case. Grambrel trusses may have given you nearly thefull width of the garage.

Jimmie