On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 12:32:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
replaced a circuit panel box for a friend, a couple years ago. We took out a FPE
Stabloc, and put in something modern. Probably saved his life. And his wife and
two kids. I could have sprayed all the neutrals and aluminum connctions with
that stuff. Well, next time....
Just remember - if you use LPS and there IS an arc, you have a fire.
That stuff is pretty flammable. It is a light petroleum base. A bit
of a "catch 22".
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 00:43:06 -0500, The Daring Dufas
Just saying - over 40 years with "series 2" aluminum wiring and
standard devices (not CoAlr or the previous version of "aluminum
compatible" )and not a single sign of corrosion, degradation, or any
other problems when replacing all the devices with CoAlr to satisfy
insurance inspection. Never a single problem other than 2 outlets that
lost contact tension and were replaced about 7? years ago.
You CAN use pigtails - with either the expensive crimp-on system or
the bi-metal wire nuts - but the wire nut pigtails in particular are
actually more problematic than a non-CoAlr device directly on the
aluminum wire.(assuming second generation aluminum)
Box fill also quickly becomes a problem (which contributes to the
problems with nutted pigtails)
On 7/9/2013 10:40 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Probably not much 2nd generation wire around. But the UL testing for
CoAlr devices is done with it.
There was extensive research done on aluminum connections for the CPSC.
The engineer that did the research did not like the only wire nuts that
are UL listed for aluminum (Ideal 65?). He preferred 3M ScotchLoks,
after abrading the wire to remove oxide and adding antioxide paste. Wire
nuts installed that way are quite reliable, and certainly better than
some of the non-CoAlr devices.
He now recommends King Innovation AlumiConn connectors.
On 7/10/2013 1:54 PM, email@example.com wrote:
That is COPALUM, which is an AMP product, and I suspect there are not
many installers left.
With AlumiConn the connection is made with a set screw.
It appears to be a good splice when made according to the manufacturer's
instructions. It is also UL and ULC listed for aluminum.
The current recommendations for aluminum connections by the engineer in
my previous post is at
In merry old England wire nuts have not been used in a long time, and I
think AlumiConns are similar to what is used for all small branch
So what is currently used in England for wire splices in house wiring?
the push in "chocolate block" things? I've seen them used in LV
applications but they seem too close to a backstab receptacle for me to
feel really comfortable with them.
Not really in any way pertinent to anything I'll be doing any time soon,
but I just find this stuff interesting.
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
*I surmise that the GFI receptacle had loose connections and that there was
a considerable load on the wiring. That would cause the arcing which would
ignite any combustible materials in direct contact or in very close
As RBM pointed out the GFI is not designed for this type of protection, but
an arc fault circuit breaker is.
Does this house have smoke detectors?
And if that is what happened the GFCI wasn't any more responsible for
the fire than if the same thing happened with an ordinary receptacle.
I wonder how much of the GFCI was left for the fire marshal to determine
On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:28:10 -0400, "John Grabowski"
Yes. Though he never mentioned that one went off. Seems like a
detector should have detected all that smoke. Maybe he had
detector(s) in the house proper, but not on the porch enclosure on the
rear. The smoke did not get into the house until he actually opened
from the inside of the house one of the sliders from the house onto
the porch, at which time the sliding doors actually exploded and blew
into the house. At that point the black smoke inundated the house
proper. So I'll bet he had no detector on the porch. I'll have to
ask. Now that I think about that, I don't either. My enclosed sun
porch was built after the house.
As soon as I can, I am going to add one to my porch for sure.
On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:37:26 AM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Now I'm really going to burst your bubble.
You know all those years you were sleeping well because you thought your GFCI's
were protecting you against a short and/or a fire? Well, you shouldn't have been
sleeping that well because a GFCI won't do either.
You really should read up on how GFCI's work and what they do and don't protect
against so that you are not living under incorrect assumptions.
On Wednesday, June 26, 2013 3:37:26 AM UTC-7, email@example.com wrote:
1. Did the fire start inside the electrical box of the GFCI or a circuit coming
or leaving it?
2. Was the electrical box metal or plastic and was it in a wet location and if
so was it an outdoor box?
3. Was the line connected to the box Romex or was it inside a conduit and if it
was inside a conduit was it a EMT or rigid or PVC and was it in a wet location?
On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 06:37:26 -0400, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
GFI devices do NOT protect either the wiring or the house. They are
not designed or intended to. They are to protect YOU and others from
shock in the event of a malfunctioning device (power leakage to case).
An "arc fault" detector MAY have prevented the fire - as that is what
they are designed to do. How effective they are, I don't know.
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