Generator on kerosene

Quite frankly - I bought the Caddy with the intention of switching it over to a gas 350 engine. Each time I took it to a shop to do it - they told me I had the "good" diesel engine - and that it would run forever - and I was wasting money. I drove it for 4 years and 60,000 miles - traded in on a new car.

Harry

I was born in a farm house about 30 miles north of Allentown PA in Schuylkill County. I lived there from 1948 when I born until 1954. We moved to big city of Tamaqua PA 10 miles away(10,000 people at the time

- now closer to 7000) so that I could go to a school building that had each grade in a separate room. I attended part of first grade in a one room school that had 8 rows of desks - one for each grade. We had electricity - but no plumbing. We had a hand pump on the well - and later I remember getting and electric well pump and one cold faucet in the sink. We were so proud of that - but never had an indoor bathroom. We took Saturday night baths in a metal tub in front of the coal stove with water heated on the stove. We even had to cross a paved road to the outhouse - to keep the sewage away from our well. But we did have TV and I remember seeing Harry Truman being sworn in when I was just 4 in 1952. We had a big party and all the neighbors came over. In 1954 we sold 10 acres with a stream and railroad frontage - a big house - and three level barn for $3000. Boy I wish I had that back. The place recently sold for $350,000 - it has a bathroom now but the hand pump well is still out back. Do the math - I am only 57. Harry

We called that a wringer and I could see how easily one could get a teat caught there - I remember getting my fingers pinched there more than once :-)

Re GM Diesels:: I had an 82 Olds 98 Diesel. We went from San Antonio to Michigan on slightly over 2 tanks of fuel. I finally got rid of it because it looked so ratty, but it still ran fine. I bought it wrecked for $500 in about 1990 or 91. Spent about $50 fixing the wreck damage. A black junk yard fender on a brown car LOL. Kept intending to paint it but never did. The first couple of years they had the Diesel (78 & 79) they were converted gas blocks. They had all kinds of problems. Over the years they improved them gradually- blocks had a higher nickel content, stronger crankshafts, heavier main bearing webs, roller lifters, better head bolts. They still had head gasket problems to the end. The biggest problem IMO is that they only have 10 head bolts. Supposedly there is a set of stainless steel studs available, and some kind of improved gasket, that they claim will nearly eliminate problems. There are still some die hard fans of them. I have seen several Olds and Caddys bring a fortune on EBay. I remember going to a house with my former neighbor, an electrician, to help him on a side job. The guy had an oil furnace-- one of very few around here. There was a big above ground tank, I would guess 500 gal or so. up on legs. On the outlet to the tank was a Tee, on one side was the line going to the house, the other want to a regular fuel hose and nozzle. Parked right next to the tank was a beautiful top of the line Buick station wagon. One guess what engine it had. At the time I think heating oil was about $.65/gal. I had toyed with the idea of putting an oil furnace in my house and doing the same thing, but figured with my luck I'd get caught. Larry

I have summer home in PA with an oil furnace and one of those big oil tanks. See it at -

- you will surprised how small it is. It burns maybe 300 gallons a year. My "friend" had a VW rabbit diesel. He even had a spare fuel tank in it where the spare tire went. He carried 30 gallons - went about 1000 miles between fills. He was caught.

Well, I'm just 3 years ahead of you, Harry... :)

It's interesting the difference in areas...in SW KS when Grandad broke out the home quarter around 1900 he was still a young feller working for the Santa Fe "back east" about 100 miles and coming out for a week or so at a time. By 1910 or thereabouts he had saved enough w/ a brother to quit and borrow $300 for a mule and a wagon. The house was started in 1914 (prior to that they lived in a shed/barn combination) but had lighting (the Delco windcharger system) and indoor plumbing from the beginning. I was born in '45 and remember the Delco but we were so far from anywhere there was no point in having a TV until after I was out of college. While in VA/TN and traveling on business through most of the E-TN/SW-VA/WVA/E-PN coal country (we manufactured/sold/serviced online ashmeters to mines/prep plants) I became really aware of the differences in cultures. Working w/ TVA in later years also emphasised the difference. As noted, we got "real" power in '48 in large part because my folks started the drive to spur the formation of a local rural-electric co-op as soon as the war was over--they had been plotting during the last year or so prior to that. Dad served on the board for

In my case it was blue smoke and the engine was a 2-cycle, a Dolmar chainsaw. I bouhgt the saw second -hand for a brushing project, where we had to cut alder trees about 2-5" in diam. A couple of days into the project, bush camp, I woke up sick, went out, filled my jugs from a 5 gallon jug we kept under a tarp there, and rode up to the job site. Of course the fiver was full of kerosene for the space heater, and i was so plugged up i never even smelled it. The saw was full of gas from the day before. I ran three tanks of kerosene through it before coffee, blowing smoke like a house on fire, and finally got over to where my buddies were, asked to borrow a tuning screwdriver, get the piece of %$* to rev up right. "Did you spill kerosene on your pants this morning?" somebody sez, handing me a screwdriver and sniffing the air. Yeah we had a good laugh about that. No harm done, and that saw ran till it shook itself apart many years later.

JohnK

There seems to be a lot of concern about getting caught with undyed (pink) fuel. When I was working in the oil industry we dyed process oil (I forget the label name) by the barrel and rebottled them by the litre at 10x the price for instrument refills. The dye was alizarin red I believe

Stormin,

What are you using to heat your home? If your are hooked up to LP gas or natural gas, then there are conversion kits which will enable your generator to run off that fuel instead of gasoline.

There are a few problems with such a conversion:

On the plus side, you'll usually never fear running out of fuel for even a long term power outage and you don't have the danger of storing large quantities of gasoline.

If the conversion isn't a viable option and I were making the decision, then I'd just buy a couple of large gasoline containers and store another

If you store the gasoline for a long time in plastic containers, then be aware that the more volatile components of the gasoline will leech through the plastic during long term storage. Blend old storage gasoline at least

I've got over twenty gallons of gasoline in storage containers. I've got 4 vehicles, with an average total of at least 50 additional gallons of gasoline which can be pumped out if needed during an outage. If I'm really desperate, then I've also got a few gallons of assorted gas-oil mixes which can be blended into the fuel for a generator (about 1 part in 10). Obviously, I'd prefer to not have oil in the fuel, but a small amount isn't a big problem if I'm concerned about a serious power outage.

With 70 or more gallons of gasoline at my disposal, I can keep one or both of my generators running for a fair amount of time. Probably longer than the short life of those cheap Briggs engines in the generators. :)

Obviously I'm not going to pump all of the gasoline out of my vehicles, so I can always send somebody out for more gasoline after I've used up most of the 70 or so gallons.

Gideon

Some of this discussion has moved from talking about diesel fuel in generators and moved to diesel fuel in automobiles. I skimmed through my file of "car talk" columns from the newspaper and found a familiar column which I had read last year. I was surprised by the apparent severity of even small amount of diesel, such as 1 gallon in 20, in the fuel for modern gasoline engines. I found this same article on the Internet and I've copied it below, along with appropriate credit to the authors (who have written several good books).

I am curious how extension the recommended fix would be if this person had actually run the engine with the diesel-gasoline mixture. All his wife did was put the mixture into the fuel tank.

Gideon

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- Dear Tom and Ray:

This evening, my overworked, overbooked, type-A wife accidentally put about 3.5 gallons of diesel into her nearly empty 1998 Honda Odyssey. Upon realizing her mistake, she filled up the rest of the 12-gallon tank with gasoline. At that point, she wisely decided to call me before trying to drive it. I told her to park it, and I immediately called two mechanics to get their advice. I first called the dealer, and he said not to drive the car and to have it towed in. He said he would have to drain the gas tank and steam-clean it to get the diesel out and then check to see how far into the system the diesel fuel might have gotten. If we were lucky, it wouldn't have gotten sucked into the fuel pump, the fuel line or the injectors. If we weren't lucky, the dealer sure would be!

Then I called my trusty curbside mechanic, who comes to the house with all his tools and equipment in his truck and always provides me with reliable repair service for about a quarter of what the dealer quotes. He said that we probably could drive it. It would smoke some while the diesel burned out, but he thought that it might be OK, except maybe we would have to replace the oxygen sensors.

I usually like to take the path of least resistance, but in this case I felt it would be better to be safe than sorry, and we had the car towed in for service. What should we do before driving it? Thank you, and don't fuel like my wife.

-- Neil

RAY: Well, I think the dealer gave you the correct advice, Neil. But you might not need to be quite as thorough as he's suggesting. And you certainly don't have to let him do the work, if you like your buddy, Crusty McToolbox, better.

TOM: It sounds like your wife never even ran the engine with the diesel fuel. So, we can say with confidence that none of it got into the fuel lines. All of it's still in the tank.

RAY: The tank needs to be removed and drained. You can probably skip the steam-cleaning phase, as I'm guessing that less than half a cup of diesel will remain on the fuel-tank walls.

TOM: After you reinstall the tank and refill it with gasoline, I'd have Crusty remove the fuel line where it joins the fuel rail, up in the engine compartment. Then you can cycle the fuel pump (without running the engine) and take a sample of the fuel in a glass bottle. Let it settle out and see if it looks clean. Do this several times, or until you get good, clean-looking gasoline. Then hook everything back up and drive it.

RAY: The fuel injectors shouldn't be bothered, even if there is still a tiny amount of diluted diesel fuel in the tank -- it'll just burn right up in the cylinders without any problem. Crusty is right, though, that if you ran a quantity of diesel through the engine, you'd be putting the oxygen sensors at real risk. And they're not cheap to replace.

TOM: But I don't think the diluted remnants of half a cup of diesel fuel in 12 gallons of gasoline will do any harm. Of course, if we're wrong and your fuel system is ruined, let us know, so we can warn the next poor schlub who does this. Good luck, Neil.

I've seen that in stores. I wonder if a galon of kerosene would do the same job. Or if it's possible to run a gasoline auto or truck engine on kero.

Hmm. That gets me thinking. I wonder if kerosene would do damage to a modern vehicle? I'm thinking like the times when the power is out, and I've got some kero around the house. But the truck is low on gas. Pour some kero into the truck.... or not?

More inserted.

In 1971 - don't ask me why - I was young and "green." I was a science teacher that wanted to show off my knowledge I guess. I bought a new Chevy Vega - and had a propane tank put in the trunk and a carb fitted that would work with propane. I was so proud that I had a car that could "run inside" with little pollution. Clean burning propane would allow the engine to run forever without needing new plugs or tuneups. In those days when cars started up - especially in winter - they idled terribly until they were warm but propane startups were really smooth. I would be helping the energy crisis - I told my students. What I did not tell them was - what a problem it was finding places to fill up. Also - that you got less miles per gallon on propane than gasoline. After a year or so - the whole idea wore thin (I got married) - I put the old carb back on and ran it on gasoline. In 1973 - Winnebago made the Brave motor home with a dual fuel option - gasoline and propane. Just the other day I was in the junk yard - buying a replacement engine for a friend's car. The junk yard guy - took us out in the yard with a

NO

Stormin,

The article I posted was a year old and was discussing a 1998 Honda Odyssey. I'd consider that to be a modern car - It's newer than 3 of my four vehicles. :)

Based upon that article which I posted, I'd avoid fuel oil in any gasoline engine.

Gideon

Toller,

We're drifting off topic a bit, but for those who want to have a moderately safe gallon of gas in the truck for emergencies, I've sometimes carried one of those sealed 1 gallon containers of Coleman white gas for the Coleman lanterns. It is more expensive that gasoline at the pump, but still far less than 10x.

It is absolutely spill proof since it has that metal seal on top which must be pierced before you can pour out the product. I'm sure that it has been pre-treated with a gasoline stabilizing compound. I do not know about the volatile components - it could still be explosive if/when the container is punctured in an accident. When I've carried it, I have stored it an area of the trunk which I consider to be the safest area. I also protect it as much as possible from moving about.

Note: I've carried these gallon cans but never actually needed to use one. But I have been assured by my chemist friends that this white gas works fine in an auto and that a modern computer-controlled car should start on this gas.

Gideon

I agree, 1998 I consider to be modern.

OK, sounds like a good idea to avoid diesel in modern gasoline vehciles. too much electronic stuff, oxygen sensors, and so on.