Gas Grill Renovation

[trader_4]

I have a 15 year old Weber Genesis Gold gas grill. Overall, it's in very good shape. The burners, flame spreader bars and stainless steel grills are in good shape. But the outside parts that are painted black has weathered. So, I'm going to spray paint it and hopefully it will look real good again. A similar new one would be $600+, so I think it's well worthwhile. The hood and front doors below are stainless and still look good. But I'm considering painting those red or green for a different look. So, what needs to be painted for sure is the lower black metal cabinet that doesn't get hot and the black firebox and edges of the hood that do get hot. And optionally a color for the hood and doors.

So far I'm headed towards Rustoleum High Heat in flat black for the firebox and edges of the hood. And Rustoleum Semi Gloss regular paint for the cabinet. Here is the interesting and weird part. Looking at reviews at Home Depot, most people are reporting that the high heat product works, but there are many that have had problems, ranging from what is supposed to be black looking gray or the paint not adhering, even though they did extensive and apparently correct prep. And all those negative reviews get a response from Rustoleum saying that their high heat paint needs to be cured at like 400F for an hour for it to work properly. And every one of those posters points out that it does not say that on the product instructions on the can. This has been going on for years, no further explanation from R. It certainly has lowered my opinion of Rustoleum. Every person that has any problem with the paint, that's the answer, basically it's your fault, you didn't properly heat cure it, even though nowhere except in the HD reviews does R tell you that you need to do that.

I also find it hard to believe that it really needs to be cured at 400F, because without that on the can, there would be like 90% failure rate. That's because most people would think it could be applied anywhere, not just high temp locations and part of plenty of applications would never get much heat. You would buy one can of high temp paint and use it on other parts too. On the other hand, looking at high temp paints from other suppliers, I see that there are ones that are ceramic based that do require high temp curing. But those spell it out in the directions.

So, IDK, very confusing. I think I'm OK because the high heat product will go where there is considerable heat and the rest I'll do with regular paint. That was kind of driven by the fact that I think a flat looks OK on the firebox, but I want semi-gloss on the cabinet. If I decide to paint the stainless hood red or green, I'm looking at Duplicolor high temp auto paint as that's the only decent colors, reg, blue or green that I can find in high temp product.

So, any experience or advice ? What do you make of R and the heat curing, but it's not in the directions?

[Dean Hoffman]

The idea of heat treating something implies a kiln. Otherwise the heat treatment would be uneven. Who owns those?

[WWS TEXAS]

Look at VHT paint.

[trader_4]

Exactly. You could use your oven if the parts are small enough to fit. If you look at auto high temp paint, that's what they suggest, if the parts won't get hot in the application. So like brake calipers, you could put those in your oven. And then for various parts that you can't put in your oven, who knows how hot various parts actually get in a car or similar? Like painting a pipe, one end could be a much different temperature than another. And so far I haven't seen any supplier give more information, like what are the downsides to it not curing properly, will it peal off or will it just be less durable, etc. Less durable is far more acceptable than if it peels off. Lots of questions, no answers. But Rustoleum is something else. Any complaint at HD, even that it's gray instead of black, stock answer is that you didn't heat it to cure it, even though the can doesn't say anything about needing to heat it.

With the gas grill I'm comfortable that the firebox part will get hot enough though and the cabinet parts I want to paint with a semi-gloss anyway, so that's not an issue.

[Pinocchio Psaki]

Paint it a combo of CCP red and yellow and DNC blue.

[Tekkie©]

On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 06:56:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 posted for all of us to digest...

I would call Weber. I had a problem with the squirrels chewing my hose. They sent a new hose with a "squirrel guard" (spring) on it for free.

[Clare Snyder]

Did you think to look up the directions for the paint on the internet? It clearly points out the multi-step heat cure process.

[trader_4]

You're right, it's in the technical data sheet:

DRY & RECOAT TIMES Sprays: Dries to touch in 30 minutes and to handle in 1-2 hours. Allow paint to dry for 1 hour before heating. In order to achieve full cure, the coating must be heat cured at 450ºF for one hour. Product may emit smoke and harmless odor.

On the can it has exactly the same, without this one key sentence:

"In order to achieve full cure, the coating must be heat cured at 450ºF for one hour."

Quite stunning that despite this going for many years, it's still this way. Puts R way down on my list of good suppliers. But like I said, it's impossible that not heating it leads to some obvious failure in the short term. The vast majority of people using a high heat product will just read the label, not go find the TDS. And there have to be a lot of applications where people spray it both on areas that get to 450F and areas that are not heated at all. How does one get 450F, even on all parts of a gas grill firebox without a kiln? The top, no problem, but the bottom? Supporting parts, etc?

[trader_4]

Project update. I've got all the paint figured out:

Firebox - Rustoleum High Heat Black, Satin/flat

Hood Outside - VHT Caliper Paint, Red

Cabinet frame - Regular Rustoleum Black, Semigloss

Wheel hubcap, - White gloss, can of old marine enamel I already have from the boat.

The Rustoleum HH is supposed to be heat cured at I think it was 400F. The VHT is supposed to be heat cured at 200F. I easily do the VHT on the hood. The firebox, most of it I can probably get to 400F, not sure about the lower parts, but it will be what it will be.

Only did the hubcap so far, came out great. Have to get going or probably delay it a month. Tree pollen will be coming down. I decided to take it apart to paint it, at least that's the plan. Looks like 1 bolt holds the firebox, it was badly shot, I snapped it off and that end now lifts free. Other end has two bolts that hold the burners in. Thanks to all for the advice, I'll post again on how it comes out.

[trader_4]

So I had some time to work on this. I decided to take it mostly apart, eg remove the firebox from the cabinet to be better able to paint it right. I was surprised how easy that was. Only three bolts. Two hold the burners in, those nuts loosened right up, burners came out, they are in great shape. The other bolt was on the other side and it holds the firebox to the frame. It was badly rusted, is sheared off. But that allowed me to remove the firebox. I soaked the remains of the bolt with PB Blaster, waited a few hours and I was able to loosen and remove it.

I progressed to the first paint operation, which was to use the VHT Caliper Paint on the hood and doors. They say to do two light coats followed by a med wet coat. Recoats are to be done within an hour or after 7 DAYS. 7 days? And after painting it needs to be heated to 200F for 30 mins to cure it. So I tried to do what it said. It was windy, was forecast to be windy for like the next several days and tree pollen will be coming down soon, so I decided to do it in the basement. I set up a halogen work light, but even so, lighting was far from what it would have been outside, where you can see much better. As I was putting on the medium coat, coat number 3, there were spots that looked glossy, others that looked flatter. I tried putting down more paint, didn't seem to change it that much. At that point, I didn't know what was going on. Was this just one area drying faster than another and it would even out? Put on more paint? But then I was worried about too much, runs, etc. They always tell you that several light coats are better than one heavier....

It didn't matter much at that point because I only had one can of paint. It claimed to be enough for 15 sq ft, at this is just a medium size gas grill hood and two front doors for the cabinet. But at this point, I was almost out of paint, not enough to do a heavier coat on the whole thing. So I stopped and waited to see what happened. Which was mostly nothing, it dried about how it looked. Some spots rich, glossy, others dull looking like a satin finish. More surface looking satin than glossy. My conclusion is that even though this was supposed to be enough paint for 15 sq ft, it needed more paint. I'm hopeful that one more heavier coat, getting it all wet looking, is the solution. The good news is that the color is awesome and it doesn't look like I have to fix it, start over, etc.

But then there is the usual lacking information on the instructions and how to proceed. As noted above, it says that after being painted, to achieve full cure it needs to be heated to 200F for 30 mins. Nothing about having to wait to do that. It also says that to re-coat you need to do it within an hour or else wait 7 days. I've never seen 7 days before for anything, usually it's 24 or 48 hours. The issue there is that if you do it quickly, the coats behave like one when drying/curing. But if you do it beyond that, the first coat is partially cured and the fresh paint on top interferes with it curing correctly. So you have to wait until the first coat is fully dry/cured.

With current scheduling I have no need to do anything for at least 3 days. So the question now is how to proceed? I see a few choices:

A - Wait 7 days, then re-coat, let dry and then cure at 200F.

B - Cure now, wait 7 days, then re-coat, let dry, cure again.

C - Cure now, re-coat anytime, which would be at least 2 days from now,

3 days from first coat, cure again. Figuring that curing accelerates the process, so it's cured, no need to wait 7 more days.

Opinions?

[trader_4]

So I sprayed the firebox and cabinet yesterday. All came out excellent. With the Rustoleum enamel for the cabint, mindful of the previous experience with the VHT paint, I first tried to get it on wet looking. Soon as it was wet looking it ran. Fortunately I did that in a small, non critical area first. So I just wiped it off. Will go back later sand it and recoat. That reminded me why with the VHT I was reluctant to put enough on to make it look smooth and wet. That's what typically happens with spray cans paint, if it gets wet looking it runs.

So I'm going to wait a few days and then decide what to do with the hood and doors. Currently thinking is to lightly sand, then cure in oven and recoat. They say to wait

7 days, but I might try it on a door sooner, see what happens. I also did some more googling and found people saying that if you have glossy sections and rougher looking ones, it means that the paint was drying before it hit. That could be, but I did this at around 55F and 60% humidity, so you wouldn't think it would be drying before it hit. IDK, all very confusing..... If one more can of VHT fixes the hood and doors I'll be very happy.

[gfretwell]

When you are shooting paint, you need lots of light coats, not all at once. That is certain to run.

[trader_4]

That's what I thought and have been doing for year. But the VHT directions said do two light coats followed by one medium wet coat. And it didn't run, even in the spots that came out glossy, so IDK, being high temp paint, maybe it's thicker and more run resistant. Of course next time when I put it on heavier, I wouldn't be surprised if it did run. Even if the theory that the non-glossy areas are caused by it drying before it hits, that means you need to spray closer, which can lead to runs too. Also I did this in the basement, where it was about 55F, so it's not like it was 85F where you'd expect it to dry very fast.

My current thinking is to wait at least a couple more days, then lightly sand one of the doors, then re-coat it, wait a day, then cure it in the oven and see what happens. Figures that the part I'm having trouble with, the hood and doors are the most visible parts too. The back of the cabinet looks great. :)

[Dean Hoffman]

What about making it all look rough on purpose? After all, anyone can buy a grill with a smooth finish.

[trader_4]

I think smooth, mirror glossy looks much better, it's what's on new grills. Plus unless I change to some different paint, IDK how to get that with the VHT Caliper Paint. Some areas came out glossy, others dull, IDK how to make it all dull. Maybe spraying from further away, so that it partially dries before it hits would achieve that, but I'm going to try for the smooth, mirror look. If that fails, then maybe.

Seems no one has opinions on whether to wait the full 7 days, whether to bake before re-coating or after. Given the weather and scheduling possibilities, I think I will give it a shot on Tue or Wed. That would be 4 or 5 days. It's been curing where it's ~65F. I can put the three parts out in the sun now too, that should help. You would think a good day in the sun would be worth a couple at 60F, which is their minimum to apply it. They don't say anything about curing time between coats versus temperature, just to wait 7 days to re-coat.

[trader_4]

So my conclusion is VHT paint, specifically their caliper paint, SUCKS. After one coat, it came out with some spots beautiful, smooth, high gloss, mirror like, spots right next to it rougher, looking like rough semi-gloss. I did that first coat in the basement where it was harder to see, figured it was due to not enough paint in the spots where it came out rough.

But here's what happened with the second attempt. I lightly sanded it then tried again. This time I held the can much closer and tried to get a wet coat on all of it. They say to do two light coats, then a med wet coat, whatever that means. It was still extremely difficult. It takes a lot of paint in one spot to get it to smooth out and it it dries very quickly. I think that is the essence of the problem, it just dries too fast. It did come out better, but still clearly unacceptable. Even the doors, which are only about 18 x 18 didn't come out even, they are blotchy, gloss here, rough there. And I did it when it was 75F this time, outside, last fail was in the basement that was 55F.

So, I'm going to switch to Duplicolor. The cabinet using Rustoleum regular enamel and the firebox using Rustoleum High Heat both came out excellen, no complaints there. And one can did the cabinet, one can the firebox. I bought two cans of that VHT crap that's supposed to cover 12 sq ft and it's still a hot mess. My choice of VHT was mainly because the caliper paint is rated to 900F, while other paints are only good to 500F. But 500F is probably good enough for the lid. $18 down the drain, plus the wasted time.