Gas and Electric usage up since new windows installed

[crockydile]

Hello:

Appearently I do not have good luck with being able to heat a house. This is the second house I have had that I have heating problems with ;)

In March of this year we replaced our really drafty wooden double pained windows. We installed 3 pane shucos with lowE and argon. Besides not being able to open we replaced them since they leaked and in the winter the house still had a chill.

Now here is the problem.............

(0) We have a natural gas lennox for heat.

(1) We have made no other changes to the house other than windows.

(2) Gas usage has doubled for same month last year.

(3) Electric has also doubled since I have been using a space heater in living room to stay warm and to prevent heat from turning on.

(4) I have been documenting how often the heat turns on and off. When it turns on it usually stays ON between 5-10 minutes regardless of the time of day. However the cycle time (from Off to On) changes considerably. During the day it is about every 10 minutes, then it slowly decreases to every 5 minutes and then it becomes every 1 minute.

(5) Between around 10 am to about 6 pm it is every 10 minutes cycle time. From about 9 pm till about 8 am it is a 1 minute cycle time. All other times are about 5 minutes.

(6) Last year during winter I payed attention to how often it cycled on and off it was always around a 10 minute cycle time. I remember since I had heating problems in my previous house.

(7) We had heating company come out this week and they found no problems. They checked the temperature between the in and out and the difference was 45 degrees. For this unit the range is supposed to be

35-65 degrees.

Any suggestions on what may be causing this? I have an appt for next tuesday for another tech to come out to do some more extensive troubleshooting.

• note: the cycle times i mentioned in (4 and 5) is a range. I do not mean to say there are only 3 cycle times, but these are the most prevelant.

[Joseph Meehan]

What were the heating degree days last year vs this year? How are you measuring gas usage, the billed cost or measured amount of gas??

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, What kind of insulation do you have on your house? Walls, ceiling, basement walls, etc. and is walls 2x4 or 2x6 construction? IMO, first thing you do is energy assesment of your house ie. let expert come out and go about your house to see where the heat loss(leak) is occuring. Where I live it costs 150.00 to do thorough job with a written report. Local gas company does this service. Or you can take a IR picture of your house which will show the area of heat loss. Tony

[crockydile]

I have not yet checked that but I plan on it hopefully this weekend. However I do know that last year even in the coldest day of the year my system never cycled on 1 minute after it turned off.

Yesterday the high was 45 and the low was 31.

Measured amount of gas.

[crockydile]

Not sure on wall insulation or construction. House is entirely brick with a dining room addition which is not brick. The attic insulation includes some sort of recycled newspaper with it. So this would be good to replace.

But the attic insulation was the same last year as this year.

Is there a particular name which I could search for which does this energy audit? I checked with my gas and electric about 3 yrs ago and they do NOT offer this sort of service. I know in Florida my moms electric company did do this sort of thing, but where I live the utilities do not.

[Mikepier]

Check the basics first. Start with your thermostat. See if it is working correctly. It could be the reason why your furnace is cycling a lot. There is usually a heat anticipator setting which controls the cycling of the furnace. The higher the setting, the longer the cycle will be. What kind of heat do you have, hot water baseboard or forced hot air?

[Brian]

Do heat loss calc....

Here is my house heat loss: Floor 45% Walls 36% Roof 3% Glass 16% Doors ~0.4%

What would my savings be if I replace standard windows with LowE?

Probably $1 - 2 on every $100 spent on heating....

Before replacing windows see if savings are there...

Also price of gas of our GasCo went up 36%....

Last november heating degree days were 369 @Indy This november: 493

Your bill doubled? Possible...

[m Ransley]

What about water heater, cooking, laundry and bath use are they the same, and water heater temp and efficiency, you flushed it and checked the flame and it is burning good. What is R value of new windows vs old, Usualy it is very little going from a dual pane Low E argon to triple pane apx 1.5R or equal to 1/2 " fiberglass insulation. What is attic R value or thickness. Was furnace cleaned. We had a record cold December so far here in the midwest.

[crockydile]

I have forced hot air. I plan on buying a cheapo thermostat this weekend to see if that changes anything.

I have a Honeywell (square shaped) T86 programmable. (I am not 100% on the model since honeywell support site is not responding).

If I can find the right model and instructions I will see if the cycle rate can be changed. but as mentioned I will get a cheapo and try that out to rule out thermostat.

[crockydile]

I dont know the old R value but they are original windows when the house was built in the 60s. So i suspect it did not have lowE or argon, but probably just air.

As far as water heater and such I will check the gas usage for last year and this year in non-winter months to see if maybe that is where the extra gas is going (but as i said the heater is cycling fast so i am sure that is where the extra therms are going). However that is a good suggestion to check the other gas appliances as well.

attic R have no idea. i believe it is same insulation from when house was built in 60s. I have not had the furnace cleaned but I had it inspected last year and this year. I believe the tech from the heating company will open the system up more to check for blockages and such.

[crockydile]

Definitely usage doubled.. But of course they also raised cost from $0.88 to $1.26. So bill is also almost double. I am only look at thermal units consumed and not cost.

[Mikepier]

You also might want to try ( if you can) increasing the run time of your fan after the burners shut off. On my Trane, it was factory set at I think a minute or so. I was able to flick some dip switches on the control board so that the fan remains on for 2 1/2 minutes after the burners shut off. Doing this lets the fan blow some warm air a little longer. Again, I don't know if you can do this on your Lennox. Check the operating manual or the schematic.

[m Ransley]

Your present thermostat likely has a setting for swing or an anticipator, but cycling may be the furnace itself, you havnt had it cleaned or serviced so do that first.

You say your bill doubled in price well sure your gas is up 43% and its a cold December, and you never cleaned your furnace or had it serviced. Look at your attic and measure it and figure 3.5R per inch. It depends on where you live but R 35 is not optimal in the midwest R 50-60 is, I have alot more than that.

[Christian Fox]

Have you done the obvious and compared the weather from last year to this year? If it's a lot colder this year, you're going to see higher utility bills. You can't compare months and assume they're going to be the same from year to year.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

The easy way is to track degree days. Our newspaper has them listed on the weather page. Here in CT, it seems very cold, but we are still behind "average" for the year, but we are ahead of last year. Our perception of how cold it is is often thrown off by a very cold spell and we may forget the very mild time. The thermometer is more true.

[scott21230]

Try setting the thermostat anticipator setting for a system that uses hot water radiators since that will cause it to cycle on and off less often. I also wonder if you have a vent near your thermostat.

[Stretch]

Check for a dripping water heater relief valve. It will increase water bill as well as gas bill.

Check for an open fireplace flue.

Make sure all rooms have returns or leave interior doors between rooms open as much as possible to provide a return path for the air.

Is it more comfortable and less drafty with the new windows? If so, then something else is causing your problem. Have someone do a blower door test on your house.

Stretch.

[crockydile]

I have just replaced the thermostat with a new honeywell CT31 to see if it makes a difference. Thus far the last 20 minutes the system is cycling on and off about every 2 minutes. It is 42 degrees out right now.

You mentioned to change the anticipator setting. This model has something some adjustment which I assume is what you mean. I set it to 0.4. Are you recommending I change it 0.8?

Is this the temperature drop at which it turns on or when it turns off?

gas/oil furnace 0.4 electric furnace 0.3 high effic. furnace 0.8 hot water 0.8 gas/oil steam system 1.2

[crockydile]

Nov 1-Nov 30 2004

Temperature Max Avg Min Max Temperature 74 =B0F / 23 =B0C 59 =B0F / 14 =B0C 47 =B0F / 8 =B0C Mean Temperature 60 =B0F / 15 =B0C 49 =B0F / 9 =B0C 37 =B0F / 2 =B0C Min Temperature 52 =B0F / 11 =B0C 38 =B0F / 3 =B0C 23 =B0F / -5 =B0C Degree Days Max Avg Min Sum Heating Degree Days (base 65) 28 16 5 492 Cooling Degree Days (base 65) 0 0 0 0 Growing Degree Days (base 50) 10 2 0 63

Nov 1-Nov 30 2005

Temperature Max Avg Min Max Temperature 77 =B0F / 25 =B0C 60 =B0F / 15 =B0C 34 =B0F / 1 =B0C Mean Temperature 63 =B0F / 17 =B0C 48 =B0F / 9 =B0C 27 =B0F / -2 =B0C Min Temperature 51 =B0F / 10 =B0C 36 =B0F / 2 =B0C 19 =B0F / -7 =B0C Degree Days Max Avg Min Sum Heating Degree Days (base 65) 38 17 2 506 Cooling Degree Days (base 65) 0 0 0 0 Growing Degree Days (base 50) 12 3 0 96

[Bill]

This does not seem right as everybody I know who installs new windows sees a reduction in their heating requirements.

Are you looking at the amount of gas used or just the cost? Rates have gone up.

Also I don't know if this would have anything to do with it, but perhaps installing the new windows sealed your house tight so no air can get in. Is there a vent by the furnace so it can get air? Is the vent open?

Then around here (Oregon), last winter was mild. This winter it has been quite cold. So last year, 40's/50's was common. This year it has been colder - in the 20's for several days now with highs in the 30's. My neighbor has not changed anything and her bill has gone up quite a bit from last year.

Ask your neighbors if their bills have gone up as well.

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