Gas

[Dan_Musicant]

OK, this is off topic for alt.home.repair but I can't resist putting it in my crosspost, there's so many canny folks who check out that NG, and I know almost all of them drive.

I was chatting with my auto mechanic the other day and I asked him if he thought all gas was pretty much the same these days - an idea I'd been encountering. He didn't agree at all.

Now I guess I should say that I have no connections with the petroleum industry of any kind, none in the auto industry either, or any other industry associated in any way with gasoline.

He said his truck was running sluggishly and he put in a tank of 76 high octane and could hardly believe the difference it made. Suddenly the truck ran smoothly. He said he has a lot of evidence that he and other people are getting very significantly better mileage since switching to

1. I guess that's 76 Union, unless they've changed their name.

I asked him if he had any experience with their regular gas, and he couldn't really say, it seemed.

I thought I'd throw this out there and see what other people think.

Myself, I've been using the cheapest regular I can find, usually from Costco, or a station I know where they sell pretty cheap if you give them cash. I drive less than 2000/year with my two cars, so it isn't a giant deal for me, but more mileage and smoother performance would be reason enough for me to switch to a recommended brand.

Dan

[Don Phillipson]

Did he tell you about

1. Octane levels
2. Leaded vs. lead-free gasoline
3. Additives e.g. MMT
4. Supplementary mixed fuels e.g. alcohol ? Most pumps are labeled for what they contain in all four respects.

[Joseph Meehan]

Gasoline can vary in many ways. Octane is just one. Additives, age of the gas, cleanliness formula (winter vs. summer) etc. all make differences. Brands are not very different in NA as regulations and market forces tend to keep them the same.

My recommendation is simple. Only buy from stations that do a lot of business and buy the octane specified for your engine by the manufacturer or if the engine is old and starting to show signs that it needs higher go a little higher. (higher octane does not mean more power, better gas or better additives)

[Dan_Musicant]

No, we didn't talk about all that. I'm in California and I don't think they're selling leaded gasoline. We do have additives and the CA standards are different from most of the USA, making the gas a fair amount more expensive, probably in the neighborhood of 10%. Gasohol is starting to take off, at least in some places I guess. Can most cars burn gasohol? I should take the time to read the pumps, like you say.

I want to die calm and peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not kicking and screaming like the passengers of his car.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Spend a day at the docks and the gas storage places. You'll see all sorts of truck getting the same gas for different brand stations.

It may be possible that the truck responded to a different gas, but there may be other reasons. Why was it sluggish? Is there some mechanical reason that it was not running properly? Unless something was different than normal (he may have changed computers for all I know) there is no difference in 99% of the cars designed for 87 octane.

I drive about 30,000 miles a year, sometimes as much as 50,000. I've tried different brands, different octanes, and if the car is running properly I've not see any difference. This is in a half dozen cars I've driven over the past 15 or 20 years.

I go for cheap and have no problems. My older car has 139,000 miles (the plugs were changed at 75,000) and it starts, runs, and gets the same gas mileage as the day it was new. My new car has 90,000 miles, original plugs, same deal.

Try the 76 and report back. Chances are thee will be no difference except a few $ out of your wallet.

[willshak]

On 1/1/2005 10:15 AM US(ET), Dan_Musicant took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

In my area of NY, the Getty gas stations are the cheapest. They could be up to $0.10 (10 cents) per gallon cheaper than other stations in the same general area. If you look on the Getty pumps, you will see a sticker saying that the gas contains 10% Ethanol, rather than the ground polluting, mpg lowering, and more expensive MBTE, which other gas stations have added to their winter gas. I have been using the Getty gas, and don't find any difference in engine performance.

[Flakey714]

waste of money using premium gas when your motor will run on regular..The really old cars run like shit on the 10% ethanol/gasoline fuel

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I think most stations are using ethanol now. MBTE is being banned in many areas.

[MUADIB®]

Is your friend buying his gas accross the border in Nevada? This is a common practice for some folks who live near the border and live in Cali..................It's cheaper and it's better gas too, with less additive crap in it. I read recently that California is fairly PO'd about Truckers doing that before they drive into Theor state to avoid the cost, so They are going to ( may have already done so) make it where there is a cost per mile to operate vehicles in California..........although I don't think they have yet.

Remove "YOURPANTIES" to reply

MUADIB®

one small step for man,..... One giant leap for attorneys.

[Joe Bobst]

Addendum to Mr. Meehan's fuel purchasing rules:

1) Never buy gas first thing in the morning. Let the early birds have the best chance of getting the grunge from the bottom of the tank. Pickup pipes in the tanks don't draw from the top, you know. 2) Never fuel up at a station at the bottom of a hill, especially in rainy or snowy weather. Remember water flows downhill, and underground tank inlets aren't totally trustworthy. 3) The further from an interstate highway, the lower the price. And sometime the lower the quality. Shop warily when traveling. HTH

Joe

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Don't know about CA or other western states, but here in the east, truckers must have fuel use permits for each state. They report the miles driven and pay the fuel tax accordingly. You get a credit for fuel purchased in that state.

[SoCalMike]

to me, there are 3 tiers of gas...

the full price, like chevron, 76, etc. the discounters, like costco, sams, vons the unknown mom n pop places.

the discounters have a reputation to uphold, so their stations are generally clean, and they still have a good price. i just dont trust the unknowns. yes, they all get gas from the same sources. but who knows when the mom n pop places replace their gas pump fuel filters, etc.

[Joseph Meehan]

While I agree with #2 and #3, both are for real. I would not worry about #1. First, as you may already know, the pickups are not at the very bottom, the are a few inches above it. The fuel and grunge below that (and most tanks do have grunge and water below that level) is called bottoms. Good dealers have the the tanks pumped out from time to time to keep the level low so it does not get in the pickups.

Morning is the best time for two reasons. First all the grunge has had all night to settle to the bottom, not yet steered up by pumping gas, and the gas is a little cooler and you get a little more for your money. Nether is really important in my book

BTW I would recommend passing on any station that is getting or just got a fuel delivery. That is when the grunge gets steered up for real.

[Phisherman]

I found that premium BP, Amoco or Shell makes my car run smooth and efficiently. If I buy Racetrack or Direct premium gas, my car tends to run rough and stalls. My car is a 1983 model and it is very sensitive. Some gas stations will have higher water content which will cause rough idling, especially during the winter months. I've heard truckers say that 76 gas is all they buy.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Real truckers buy diesel :)

[nicksanspam]

You might be surprised to discover how little :-)

How much would you save if a 10K gallon tank lives in 55 F soil and the air temp above it drops from 34 F in the afternoon to 26 F in the morning?

Nick

[Joseph Meehan]

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Now you tell me. I've been getting up at 5 AM for the past 40 years just to top of my gas tank.

[Tom N]

In Australia it seems we have different octane ratings to you. Ordinary unleaded gas (we call it petrol) is 91 octane. Premium is 95 or 96. There are some super premiums at 98 octane.

I have an 89 Ford Telstar (which is a rebadged Mazda 626, made by Mazda in Japan). It has about 100k miles on it.

My mechanic recommended Shell Premium (96 Octane) as he said while it costs more (approx 10%), the decreased fuel consumption will often make up the difference, plus the engine will run cooler.

I thought it was hogwash until one day when we were on a long trip in summer (when it was 95-100 degrees F air temperature), the engine was getting very hot (almost at the top of the gauge) so the next lot of fuel we put in was preimum. The engine immediately went back to normal temperature. Plus we have found the lower fuel consumption more than makes up for the extra cost, so we have stuck with premium.

91 octane fuel is below the common octane levels in many other countries, but usually high-selling imported cars sold here are modified to run ok on 91. However some cars (sporty cars e.g. Mazda RX8, or low selling models like VW Polo) are not modified so they require 95 octane.

Here we also get coupons for Caltex and Shell from the two major supermarkets. Spend $30 AUD or more and gets 4c AUD / litre off the next petrol purchase - that's about 4% off.

Petrol here is about $1.00 AUD / litre - that's about $2.95 USD per US gallon. Premium is about 10% dearer.

[Phisherman]

My 1983 Honda Civic manual says "use regular gas," but when I do, my car runs rough, stalls, and gets low fuel-miles. Auto mechanics say that if your car runs better with premium, use it. I've even heard recommendations of occasionally using premium, perhaps every 4th fill up, which helps clear out injectors, plugs, and exhaust.