Has anyone seen GAF's "mission brown blend" color for their Timberline
30 comp shingles?
My general understanding is that "mission brown" is a dark brown and
that, well, brown is brown! So these Timberline shingles go up and low
and behold they are GRAY!!! Basically, a two tone look of a really
light gray with a really dark (almost black) gray part. Has anyone seen
this color on this shingle? Does it look like this? Has anyone ever
heard of mission brown looking gray? And, yes the package DID say
mission brown, so the wrong ones were not delivered.
Well, as posed, the answer to that question obviously has to be
"yes"...including, apparently, you...
Well, one should never judge color on the basis of an "understanding"
of what one thinks a name means. Did you follow the manufacturers'
recommendation of obtaining a representative sample of full-size
shingles to look at and make the color selection from these samples?
Did you look at the small samples normally on the display at the yard
or that the roofing contractors carry around with them? Did you even
look at the images on the GAF web site?
If you didn't, do any of these, then you really get what you ask for.
If you did any one of the above, especially the recommended alternative
or even the GAF web color selector tool (I just went and played with it
just to see what it provided), I think there should be little surprise
that the color the named "mission brown" is a grayish overall shade
with some brown tones in it. It appears from your description you may
have wanted something more along the line of "weathered wood blend",
but unless you got the samples and can show the installed are grossly
different than those, the problem lies in the selection, not the
While it isn't totally impossible for a batch to get mislabeled, it
certainly is quite rare, and once they're on, if they are what you
ordered I think you'll just have to get used to them. Not good news, I
know, but if you ever went and tried to pick out a paint from the name,
you should understand the difficulty inherent in assuming anything
about shades from names.
Well, I knew it was a risk that instead of simply answering the
question, I would get this kind of response. Actually, it's a real odd
situation and I was hoping not to get into the whole thing--just if
someone has seen this in person.
This is not my house, I was trying to help an elderly friend (who had a
contractor from hell) during a time I could not really stay on top of
things. Anyway, yes I looked at the website. And for your info, on my
screen it is perfectly brown! You can't trust a monitor to portray
color correctly; the "weatherwood" you mention is actually a light gray
in the real world.
I did see a small sample and it was so confusing that I called GAF on
the phone. The rep said because of all their "blending" you can't trust
the small sample and indicated that it might be defective (as in grains
had fallen off and I was seeing the "black background material." I
point blank asked "is the overall impression going to be a DARK BROWN."
Her response: "yes". She even gave a local address of someone who had
the same roof (I think she said from 2005), which I gave to the friend,
who confirmed it was a dark brown. I finally saw that house recently
and indeed it is brown and looks nothing like the grayish whatever that
was put on her house.
With all that reassurance from the actual company and an actual house,
plus the fact that the name is mission brown, I really thought that was
enough! Recently, I did see a full size shingle sample and it was the
grayish look. So now I am wondering if they recently changed the color
(which their rep sure didn't say) or if something else odd is going
on--a defective lot(s) they are just shoving off until it is gone.
Again, the house that GAF gave to look at was brown and nothing like
BTW, "mission brown" is a very old established color and is always
referred to as dark brown. I agree with you that a paint or roof color
like "sunset impressions" is not something you can assume anything
about. However, there are certain basic color names (i.e. hunter green)
that you can pretty much expect to be pretty similar for any brand.
So the reason I was asking if someone has SEEN this is I was trying to
determine if it had changed recently or if someone got the "brown"
version recently. The whole thing is just confusing and I feel bad,
considering I thought I had done all I could for this friend.
<snip explanation ...>
Well, one can't expect a response to a situation not given...
Whether there has been a change or a product snafu is a different
question than what was posed and with the above background I probably
would have responded differently--with what was posted, the question
sounded exactly like one of the many that show up that boil down to
"wasn't what I wanted, but was what I asked for".
All I can suggest in the situation is to see if you can get a confirmed
referral to the original house that you can document and then see if
you could possibly get a GAF rep to compare this one to the other and
get some recompense.
Where did the full-size shingle sample come from? If there were a
mismatch or labeling problem and it came from the same distributor as
the roof, it wouldn't be surprising to match. Perhaps you can find
some other distrubtors relatively nearby if you're in a major metro
area or even contact GAF.
Hope you can find a resolution, but suspect it won't be easy to get GAF
to admit there's a problem unless you did have a set of full-sized
samples in hand to demonstrate what you/your friend thought were
getting (and even then, I suspect it wouldn't be easy but you might get
some compensation). Without some sort of hard evidence I don't think a
small claims or other action would have much chance of succeeding if a
GAF area rep doesn't want to "make it right".
Oh, one last question/thought--does the sample at the GAF site now look
different than it did when you looked previously on the same monitor w/
the same browser? It certainly is very subtle brown on mine at
present. While it isn't going to be something GAF would stand behind,
it would likely tell you there had been a change if the image on the
web site appears different. How long a time span between the looking
and the installation?
Who have you contacted so far?
I was so disgusted with the contractor who did the roof that I had
another one come out for an informal inspection just to make sure it
was installed correctly (ironically, the color thing is the ONE thing I
can't fault him for). Anyway, this contracor that agreed to do the
"inspection" was really a nice guy and I asked him if he was familiar
with the mission brown color. He said he doesn't like GAF, so he
doesn't use it. But said he would stop at his supplier and pick up a
sample to bring over to compare. So he was the one the brought the
sample. BTW, this was not an actual shingle, it was one of those big
boards with tiny samples on the top and then about a 12" shingle below
of one of the colors--which was the mission brown. So I don't know if
it came from the same supply place as the original contractor. However,
it did look like the roof.
One interesting thing is the ridge shingles were from another company
that match to different brands colors. And, they only list GAF as the
match for mission brown (i.e. no one else has the color mission brown
so it must be made exclusively to match GAF). I just noticed looking at
the house that those do have a bit of brown in them.
Another interesting thing is if you look at roofer websites (I can post
some URL's), most of the ones I looked at had it looking brown. But,
there were a few that were more like what was put up. In fact, in some
ways its not the color that is so objectionable, but the fact that
there is an enormous contrast in the dark and light tiles--almost black
gray and they really light gray, so the monitor kinda has a hard time
showing that from a distance (but not the brown looking ones).
At this point, I really would like to just know if they changed it
recently or if there is something wrong with the coloring. The problem
is the elderly friend, is not the type who will make waves and the
stress would not be good for them. So there is no really possibility of
suits or battles here. I would like to call GAF and just ask if they
changed it, but not sure how defensive they will get. Of course, if
this was my house, I would definitely pursue it since I actually was
given a real house to look at.
In addition and to what I asked/suggested before, does the installed
color appear to more nearly match another color that would lend
credence to simply a mislabeled batch/run?
Of course, if there were an actual production snafu, they could end up
as anything and may just be missing the brown out of the mixture that
was supposed to have been applied. The color in the demo on the web
site looks so similar to what was described as going up, however, I am
tempted to think there may well have been a change as there appears to
be evidence of a more brown cast at least a year ago.
I was also wondering if it is possible that the batch just didn't get
the brown granules applied for some reason. Now if *that* is the case,
is it possible the shingles could be defective (i.e. not just cosmetic,
but not enough granules)? That would be a whole other situation. Again,
though, I am in a delicate situation here since I can only pursue this
so much without causing stress for this elderly friend. The whole thing
was just a mess all the way around.
The only way that such a gross error with a totally different color
would get past the quality control inspectors would be to have several
operations fail in succession. Call GAF with the lot number and ask
them if they had a problem with it. Don't expect a yes answer.
It seems to me that it is already causing stress. From some of your
earlier responses you seem to think that a picture on a monitor means
something. If you look around the page every manufacturer says that
the pictures are merely representations of the colors and they should
not be relied on. If you didn't do that,well...
It's also a problem that you didn't stop the installation immediately
upon seeing what you felt to be a problem.
I don't mean to be harsh on you, but from the viewpoint of a
disinterested party it seems that the bulk of responsibility weighs on
you and your actions and omissions.
No packages, but I just remembered I wrote down the lot number (I got
out the binoculars and looked up on roof to make sure it said mission
brown before they opened them and wrote down what I could make out.
Contract did say mission brown.
replying to John Ross, Syzanne wrote:
Yes. I am torn between mb and Barkwood. I have looked at several homes with
both. It depends on how sunny the day is. On a sunny day the mb does look grey.
On a cloudy day it looks great, like a chestnut brown.
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